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that the escape from forms is the formless? Yes. If it has been said by the Blessed One that the escape from forms is the formless, then it should certainly not be said: "There is form in the formless realms." Has it been said by the Blessed One that the escape from forms is the formless, and is there form in the formless realms? Yes. Has it been said by the Blessed One that the escape from sensual pleasures is renunciation? Are there sensual pleasures in renunciation? Are there taints in the taintless? Is there that which is included in that which is not included? It should not be said thus... The discourse on form in the formless realms is concluded. 8. The Eighth Chapter (81) 9. Discourse on Form as Action 527. Is bodily action, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome form? Yes. Is it with an object? Is there for it turning towards, attention, application, mindfulness, volition, aspiration, resolve? It should not be said thus... Is it not without an object? Is there for it no turning towards, no attention, no application, no mindfulness, no volition, no aspiration, no resolve? Yes. If it is without an object, if there is for it no turning towards... no resolve, then it should certainly not be said: "Bodily action, arisen from a wholesome mind, is wholesome form." Is contact, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome and with an object? Is there for it turning towards? ... and aspiration? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, with an object, is there a turning back... and aspiration for it? It should not be said so... Are feeling... perception... volition... faith... energy... mindfulness... concentration... wisdom, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, with an object, is there a turning back... and aspiration for it? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, with an object, is there a turning back... and aspiration for it? It should not be said so... Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, without an object, is there no turning back... and aspiration for it? Yes. Is contact, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, without an object, is there no turning back... and aspiration for it? It should not be said so... Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, without an object, is there no turning back... and aspiration for it? Yes. Are feeling... perception... volition... faith... energy... mindfulness... concentration... wisdom, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, without an object, is there no turning back... and aspiration for it? It should not be said so... 528. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome? Yes. Is all form whatsoever, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome? It should not be said so... Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome? Yes. Is the visible object, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome? It should not be said so... Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome? Yes. Are the sound object... odor object... taste object... tangible object... earth element... water element... fire element... air element, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome? It should not be said so... Is the visible object, arisen from a wholesome mind, indeterminate? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, indeterminate? Is it not? It should not be said thus... Is the sound base, ...the smell base, ...the taste base, ...the touch base, ...the earth element, ...the water element, ...the fire element, ...the wind element, arisen from a wholesome mind, indeterminate? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, indeterminate? It should not be said thus... 529. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, objectless, wholesome? Yes. Is the visible form base, arisen from a wholesome mind, objectless, wholesome? It should not be said thus... Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, objectless, wholesome? Yes. Are the sound base, ...the smell base, ...the taste base, ...the touch base, ...the earth element, ...the water element, ...the fire element, ...the wind element, arisen from a wholesome mind, objectless, wholesome? It should not be said thus... Is the visible form base, arisen from a wholesome mind, objectless, indeterminate? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, objectless, indeterminate? It should not be said thus... Are the sound base, ...the smell base, ...the taste base, ...the touch base, ...the earth element, ...the water element, ...the fire element, ...the wind element, arisen from a wholesome mind, objectless, indeterminate? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, objectless, indeterminate? It should not be said thus... 530. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, disjoined from contact, wholesome? Yes. Is the visible form base, arisen from a wholesome mind, disjoined from contact, wholesome? It should not be said thus... Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, disjoined from contact, wholesome? Yes. Are the sound base, ...the smell base, ...the taste base, ...the touch base, ...the earth element, ...the water element, ...the fire element, ...the wind element, arisen from a wholesome mind, disjoined from contact, wholesome? It should not be said thus... ... Is visible form, arisen from a wholesome mind, disjoined from contact, indeterminate? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, disjoined from contact, indeterminate? It should not be said thus... Is the sense-sphere of sound... the sense-sphere of smell... the sense-sphere of taste... the sense-sphere of touch... the earth element... the water element... the fire element... the wind element, arisen from a wholesome mind, disjoined from contact, indeterminate? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, disjoined from contact, indeterminate? It should not be said thus... 531. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, without object, disjoined from contact, wholesome? Yes. Is visible form, arisen from a wholesome mind, without object, disjoined from contact, wholesome? It should not be said thus... Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, without object, disjoined from contact, wholesome? Yes. Are the sense-sphere of sound... the sense-sphere of smell... the sense-sphere of taste... the sense-sphere of touch... the earth element... the water element... the fire element... the wind element, arisen from a wholesome mind, without object, disjoined from contact, wholesome? It should not be said thus... Is visible form, arisen from a wholesome mind, without object, disjoined from contact, indeterminate? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, without object, disjoined from contact, indeterminate? It should not be said thus... Are the sense-sphere of sound... the sense-sphere of smell... the sense-sphere of taste... the sense-sphere of touch... the earth element... the water element... the fire element... the wind element, arisen from a wholesome mind, without object, disjoined from contact, indeterminate? Yes. Is bodily action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, without object, disjoined from contact, indeterminate? It should not be said thus... 532. Is verbal action, form, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome? Yes. Is it objective, is there a turning towards it... a resolve? It should not be said thus (...) Is it not without object? Is there no turning towards it (...) aspiration? Yes. If it is without object, there is no turning towards it (...) aspiration; then it should not be said – "Verbal action, arisen from a wholesome mind, is wholesome form." Is contact, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, with an object, and is there a turning towards it (...) aspiration? Yes. Is verbal action, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome form, with an object, and is there a turning towards it (...) aspiration? It should not be said thus (...) Are feeling (...) perception (...) volition (...) faith (...) energy (...) mindfulness (...) concentration (...) wisdom, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, with an object, and is there a turning towards it (...) aspiration? Yes. Is verbal action, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome form, with an object, and is there a turning towards it (...) aspiration? It should not be said thus (...). Is verbal action, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome form, without an object, and is there no turning towards it (...) aspiration? Yes. Is contact, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, without an object, and is there no turning towards it (...) aspiration? It should not be said thus (...) Is verbal action, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome form, without an object, and is there no turning towards it (...) aspiration? Yes. Are feeling (...) perception (...) volition (...) faith (...) energy (...) mindfulness (...) concentration (...) wisdom, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome, without an object, and is there no turning towards it (...) aspiration? It should not be said thus (...). Is verbal action, arisen from a wholesome mind, wholesome form? Yes. Is whatever form arisen from a wholesome mind, all of it wholesome? It should not be said thus (...) ...just as bodily action, so is verbal action. 533. Is bodily action, arisen from an unwholesome mind, unwholesome form? Yes. Is it with an object, and is there a turning towards it, attention, application, advertence, volition, aspiration, resolve? No. Thus it should be said... Is it not without an object? Is there no turning towards it, no attention, no application, no advertence, no volition, no aspiration, no resolve? Yes. If it is without an object, there is no turning towards it, no attention, no application, no advertence, no volition, no aspiration, no resolve; then it should not be said – “Bodily action, form, arisen from unwholesome consciousness, is unwholesome.