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Since there is a person who attains Nibbāna by striking (the goal), is there a 'striking' state? It should not be said thus (etc.). Since there is a person who attains Nibbāna in the intermediate state, is there an intermediate state? Yes. A person who attains Nibbāna without effort (etc.). Since there is a person who attains Nibbāna with effort, is there an 'effort' state? It should not be said thus (etc.). The discourse on the intermediate state is concluded. 8. The Eighth Chapter (75) 3. The Discourse on Sense Pleasures 510. Are only the five sense pleasures the sense-sphere element? Yes. Is there not desire connected with them? Yes. If there is desire connected with them, then indeed it should not be said – "Only the five sense pleasures are the sense-sphere element." Is there not lust connected with them, desire connected with them, lustful desire connected with them, thought connected with them, lust connected with them, lustful thought connected with them, joy connected with them, happiness connected with them, joyful happiness connected with them? Yes. If there is joyful happiness connected with them, then indeed it should not be said – "Only the five sense pleasures are the sense-sphere element." Are only the five sense pleasures the sense-sphere element? Yes. Is the eye of humans not the sense-sphere element? It should not be said thus (etc.). The ear of humans (etc.). The nose of humans (etc.). The tongue of humans (etc.). The body of humans (etc.). Is the mind of humans not the sense-sphere element? It should not be said thus (etc.). Is the mind of humans not the sense-sphere element? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One – "The five sense pleasures in the world, are declared with mind as the sixth; Having abandoned desire here, thus from suffering p... is released." Is there such a Sutta? Yes. Then it should not be said – "The mind of humans is not the sense-sphere realm." Are the five sense-pleasures the sense-sphere realm? Yes. Are sense-pleasures existence, destination, abode of beings, wandering, womb, station of consciousness, acquisition of self-existence? It should not be said thus (etc.). Is there kamma leading to sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Are there beings associated with sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Do beings arise, age, die, pass away, and reappear in sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Are there form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness in sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Are sense-pleasures the five-constituent existence? It should not be said thus (etc.). Do Fully Enlightened Ones arise, Solitary Buddhas arise, pairs of disciples arise in sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Is the sense-sphere realm existence, destination, abode of beings, wandering, womb, station of consciousness, acquisition of self-existence? Yes. Are sense-pleasures existence, destination, abode of beings, wandering, womb, station of consciousness, acquisition of self-existence? It should not be said thus (etc.). Is there kamma leading to the sense-sphere realm? Yes. Is there kamma leading to sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Are there beings associated with the sense-sphere realm? Yes. Are there beings associated with sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Do beings arise, age, die, pass away, and reappear in the sense-sphere realm? Yes. Do beings arise, age, die, pass away, and reappear in sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Are there form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness in the sense-sphere realm? Yes. Are there form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness in sense-pleasures? It should not be said thus (etc.). Is the sense-sphere realm the five-constituent existence? Yes. Are sense-pleasures the five-constituent existence? It should not be said thus (etc.). Do Fully Enlightened Ones arise, Solitary Buddhas arise, pairs of disciples arise in the sense-sphere realm? Yes. Do Fully Enlightened Ones arise in sense-pleasures? Solitary Buddhas arise, a pair of disciples arise? It should not be said thus... 512. Should it not be said – "The five sense-objects are the sense-sphere"? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One – "Monks, there are these five sense-objects! Which five? Forms cognizable by the eye, desirable, agreeable, pleasing, lovely, connected with sensual pleasure, enticing; sounds cognizable by the ear... smells cognizable by the nose... tastes cognizable by the tongue... tangibles cognizable by the body, desirable, agreeable, pleasing, lovely, connected with sensual pleasure, enticing – these, monks, are the five sense-objects." Is there such a discourse? Yes. Therefore, the five sense-objects are the sense-sphere. The discussion on sense-objects is concluded. 8. The Eighth Chapter (76) 4. Discussion on Sensual Pleasure 513. Are the five sense-bases sensual pleasures? Yes. Is there not desire connected with them? Yes. If there is desire connected with them, then it should not be said – "The five sense-bases are sensual pleasures." Is there not lust connected with them, desire connected with them, lustful desire connected with them, thought connected with them, lust connected with them, lustful thought connected with them, joy connected with them, gladness connected with them, joyful gladness connected with them? Yes. If there is joyful gladness connected with them, then it should not be said – "The five sense-bases are sensual pleasures." 514. Should it not be said – "The five sense-bases are sensual pleasures"? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One – "Monks, there are these five sense-objects! Which five? Forms cognizable by the eye... tangibles cognizable by the body, desirable, agreeable, pleasing, lovely, connected with sensual pleasure, enticing – these, monks, are the five sense-objects." Is there such a discourse? Yes. Therefore, the five sense-bases are sensual pleasures. Are the five sense-bases sensual pleasures? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One – "Monks, there are these five sense-objects! Which five? Forms cognizable by the eye... tangibles cognizable by the body, desirable, agreeable, pleasing, lovely... are lovely, are conjoined with sensual pleasures, are enchanting – these, monks, are the five cords of sensual pleasure. But, monks, these are not sensual pleasures; these are not called sensual pleasures in the discipline of the Noble Ones.” “Conceiving desire is a person’s sensual pleasure, Not those things that are varied in the world; Conceiving desire is a person’s sensual pleasure, The varied things remain just so in the world; But here the wise remove their desire.” Is there such a discourse? Yes. Then it should not be said: “The five sense bases are sensual pleasures.” The discussion on sensual pleasures is concluded. 8. The Eighth Chapter (77) 5. Discussion on the Form Realm 515. Are formed phenomena the form realm? Yes. Is form existence, destiny, abode of beings, transmigration, womb, station of consciousness, acquisition of self-existence? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Is there kamma leading to form? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Are there beings leading to form? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Do beings arise, age, die, pass away, and reappear in form? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Are there in form, form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Is form a five-constituent existence? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Is the form realm existence, destiny…(etc.)…acquisition of self-existence? Yes. Is form existence, destiny…(etc.)…acquisition of self-existence? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Is there kamma leading to the form realm? Yes. Is there kamma leading to form? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Are there beings leading to the form realm? Yes. Are there beings leading to form? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Do beings arise, age, die, pass away, and reappear in the form realm? Yes. Do beings arise, age, die, pass away, and reappear in form? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Are there in the form realm, form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness? Yes. Are there in form, form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness? It should not be said so…(etc.)… Is the form realm a five-constituent existence? Yes. Is form a five-constituent existence? It should not be said so…(etc.)… 516. Formed Are phenomena the form-realm, and in the sense-realm is there form? Yes. Is that same sense-realm, that form-realm? It should not be said thus... Is that same sense-realm, that form-realm? Yes. Is a person endowed with sense-existence endowed with two existences – with sense-existence and with form-existence? It should not be said thus. The discourse on the form-realm is concluded. 8. The Eighth Chapter (78) 6. The discourse on the formless-realm 517. Are formless phenomena the formless-realm? Yes. Is feeling existence, destiny, abode of beings, transmigration, womb, station of consciousness, acquisition of self-existence? It should not be said thus... Is there kamma leading to feeling? It should not be said thus... Are there beings leading to feeling? It should not be said thus... Do beings arise, age, die, pass away, and reappear through feeling? It should not be said thus... In feeling, are there feeling, perception, formations, consciousness? It should not be said thus... Is feeling a four-constituent existence? It should not be said thus.... Is the formless-realm existence, destiny... acquisition of self-existence? Yes. Is feeling existence, destiny... acquisition of self-existence? It should not be said thus... Is there kamma leading to the formless-realm? Yes. Is there kamma leading to feeling? It should not be said thus... Are there beings leading to the formless-realm? Yes. Are there beings leading to feeling?