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“Those who have overcome doubt, among beings full of doubt; Undoubted, disjoined, A gift given to them is of great fruit.” “Such is the proclamation of the Dhamma here, No disciple there has any doubt; Having crossed the flood, with doubt cut off, We pay homage to the Buddha, the Victor, the Lord of men.” Is there such a discourse? Is it so? Yes. Then it should not be said – "There is doubt for an Arahant." Should it not be said – "There is doubt for an Arahant"? Yes. But would an Arahant doubt the names and clans of men and women, doubt the right path and the wrong path, doubt the names of grasses, sticks, and forest trees? Yes. If an Arahant would doubt the names and clans of men and women, doubt the right path and the wrong path, doubt the names of grasses, sticks, and forest trees; then indeed it should be said – "There is doubt for an Arahant." Would an Arahant doubt the names and clans of men and women, doubt the right path and the wrong path, doubt the names of grasses, sticks, and forest trees, and thus have doubt? Yes. Would an Arahant doubt the fruit of stream-entry, or the fruit of once-returning, or the fruit of non-returning, or Arahantship? It should not be said so... (etc.) The discourse on doubt is concluded. 2. The Second Chapter (13) 4. Discourse on Being Led by Others 322. Is there being led by others for an Arahant? Yes. Is an Arahant one who is led by others, dependent on others, supported by others, bound to others, who does not know, does not see, is deluded, not fully aware? It should not be said so... (etc.) But is an Arahant not one who is led by others, not dependent on others, not supported by others, not bound to others, who knows, sees, is not deluded, is fully aware? Yes. If an Arahant is not one who is led by others, not dependent on others, not supported by others, not bound to others, who knows, sees, is not deluded, is fully aware, then indeed it should not be said – "There is being led by others for an Arahant." Is there being led by others for an ordinary person, and is he one who is led by others, dependent on others, supported by others, bound to others, who does not know, does not see, is deluded, not fully aware? Yes. Is there being led by others for the Arahant, and is he one who is led by others, dependent on others, supported by others, bound to others, who does not know, does not see, is deluded, not fully aware? It should not be said so... (etc.) Is there being led by others for an Arahant, and is he not one who is led by others, not dependent on others, not supported by others, not bound to others, who knows, sees, is not deluded, is fully aware? Does he comprehend? Yes. Is there for the ordinary person a deliberation concerning others? And he is not led by others, not attained by others, not dependent on others, not bound by others. Does he know, see, unconfused, comprehend? It should not be said thus... etc. Is there for the Arahant a deliberation concerning others? Yes. Is there for the Arahant a deliberation concerning the Teacher? A deliberation concerning the Dhamma? A deliberation concerning the Saṅgha? A deliberation concerning the training? A deliberation concerning the past? A deliberation concerning the future? A deliberation concerning the past and future? A deliberation concerning phenomena co-arisen dependently on specific conditions? It should not be said thus... etc. There is not for the Arahant a deliberation concerning the Teacher, a deliberation concerning the Dhamma... etc. a deliberation concerning phenomena co-arisen dependently on specific conditions? Yes. If there is not for the Arahant a deliberation concerning the Teacher, a deliberation concerning the Dhamma... etc. a deliberation concerning phenomena co-arisen dependently on specific conditions, then it should not be said: "There is for the Arahant a deliberation concerning others." Is there for the ordinary person a deliberation concerning others? Is there for him a deliberation concerning the Teacher? A deliberation concerning the Dhamma... etc. A deliberation concerning phenomena co-arisen dependently on specific conditions? Yes. Is there for the Arahant a deliberation concerning others? Is there for him a deliberation concerning the Teacher? A deliberation concerning the Dhamma... etc. A deliberation concerning phenomena co-arisen dependently on specific conditions? It should not be said thus... etc. Is there for the Arahant a deliberation concerning others? Is there not for him a deliberation concerning the Teacher? A deliberation concerning the Dhamma... etc. A deliberation concerning phenomena co-arisen dependently on specific conditions? Yes. Is there for the ordinary person a deliberation concerning others? Is there not for him a deliberation concerning the Teacher? A deliberation concerning the Dhamma... etc. A deliberation concerning phenomena co-arisen dependently on specific conditions? It should not be said thus... etc. 323. Is there for the Arahant a deliberation concerning others? Yes. Has not the Arahant's passion been abandoned, uprooted, made like a palm-stump, brought to non-existence, not liable to arise in the future? Yes. If... If the arahant's passion is abandoned, its root cut off, made like a palm-stump, brought to non-existence, not liable to arise in the future, then surely it should not be said – "There is doubt for an arahant." Is there doubt for an arahant? Yes. Has not the arahant's hatred been abandoned...? delusion abandoned...? shamelessness abandoned, its root cut off, made like a palm-stump, brought to non-existence, not liable to arise in the future...? Has not the path for abandoning passion been developed...? the factors of awakening been developed...? for abandoning hatred...? for abandoning shamelessness the path been developed...? the factors of awakening been developed...? Is not the arahant free from passion, free from hatred, free from delusion...? Has what is to be realized been realized? Yes. If the arahant is free from passion, free from hatred, free from delusion, has realized what is to be realized, then surely it should not be said – "There is doubt for an arahant." 324. Is there doubt for an arahant? For an arahant skilled in the True Dhamma, there is doubt; for an arahant skilled in other dhammas, there is no doubt. For an arahant skilled in the True Dhamma, is there doubt? Yes. For an arahant skilled in other dhammas, is there doubt? It should not be said so... For an arahant skilled in other dhammas, is there no doubt? Yes. For an arahant skilled in the True Dhamma, is there no doubt? It should not be said so... For an arahant skilled in the True Dhamma, passion is abandoned, is there doubt for him? Yes. For an arahant skilled in other dhammas, passion is abandoned, is there doubt for him? It should not be said so. For an arahant skilled in the True Dhamma, hatred is abandoned... delusion is abandoned... shamelessness is abandoned... the path for abandoning passion is developed... the factors of awakening are developed... for abandoning hatred... for abandoning shamelessness the path is developed... the factors of awakening are developed... the arahant skilled in the True Dhamma is free from passion, free from hatred, free from delusion... what is to be realized is realized, is there doubt for him? Yes. The arahant skilled in other dhammas is free from passion, free from hatred, free from delusion... What is to be realized has been realized. Is there for him any doubt about others? It should not be said thus... For the Arahant skilled in others' doctrines, lust is abandoned. Is there for him no doubt about others? Yes. For the Arahant skilled in his own doctrine, lust is abandoned. Is there for him no doubt about others? It should not be said thus. For the Arahant skilled in others' doctrines, hatred is abandoned, delusion is abandoned... shamelessness is abandoned... the path for the abandonment of lust is developed... the factors of awakening are developed... for the abandonment of hatred... for the abandonment of shamelessness the path is developed... the factors of awakening are developed... the Arahant skilled in others' doctrines is without lust, without hatred, without delusion... what is to be realized has been realized. Is there for him no doubt about others? Yes. The Arahant skilled in his own doctrine is without lust, without hatred, without delusion... what is to be realized has been realized. Is there for him no doubt about others? It should not be said thus... 325. Is there for an Arahant any doubt about others? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One – "Monks, I declare the destruction of the taints for one who knows, for one who sees, not for one who does not know, not for one who does not see! And what, monks, does one know, what does one see, for the destruction of the taints to occur? 'Such is form'... 'such is the cessation of consciousness' – thus, monks, for one who knows thus, for one who sees thus, the destruction of the taints occurs." Is there such a discourse? Yes. Therefore, it should not be said – "There is for an Arahant any doubt about others." Is there for an Arahant any doubt about others? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One – "Monks, I declare the destruction of the taints for one who knows, for one who sees, not for one who does not know, not for one who does not see! And what, monks, does one know, what does one see, for the destruction of the taints to occur? 'This is suffering' – monks, for one who knows, for one who sees, the destruction of the taints occurs. 'This is the origin of suffering'... 'This is the cessation of suffering'... 'This is the path leading to the cessation of suffering' – for one who knows, for one who sees, the destruction of the taints occurs. Thus, monks, for one who knows thus, for one who sees thus, the destruction of the taints occurs." Is there such a discourse? Yes. Yes. Therefore, it should not be said –