English
“Just so, great king, there are no formations which arise without existing. Only existing formations arise.” “Give another analogy.” “Just as, great king, whatever seed-plants and germinating plants are placed in the earth, gradually attaining growth, development, and fullness, would give flowers and fruits— those trees did not arise without existing; only existing were those trees— arisen. Just so, great king, there are no formations that arise without being, they arise only by being. "Give another simile." "Just as, great king, a potter takes clay from the earth and makes various vessels, those vessels are not born without being, they are born only by being. Just so, great king, there are no formations that arise without being, formations arise only by being." "Give another simile." "Just as, great king, if there were no body for the lute, no skin, no sound-box, no neck, no bridge, no strings, no plectrum, and no corresponding effort by a person, would a sound arise?" "No, venerable sir." "But when, great king, there is a body for the lute, skin, a sound-box, a neck, a bridge, strings, a plectrum, and corresponding effort by a person, would a sound arise?" "Yes, venerable sir, it would arise." "Just so, great king, there are no formations that arise without being, formations arise only by being." "Give another simile." "Just as, great king, if there were no lower fire-stick, no fire-stick holder, no fire-stick rope, no upper fire-stick, no tinder, and no corresponding effort by a person, would that fire arise?" "No, venerable sir." "But when, great king, there is a lower fire-stick, a fire-stick holder, a fire-stick rope, an upper fire-stick, tinder, and corresponding effort by a person, would that fire arise?" "Yes, venerable sir, it would arise." "Just so, great king, there are no formations that arise without being, formations arise only by being." "Give another simile." "Just as, great king, if there were no jewel, no sunlight, no cow dung, would that fire arise?" "No, venerable sir." "But when And if, great king, there were a gem, there were sunlight, there were cow dung, would that fire arise? Yes, venerable sir, it would arise. Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise without existing; formations arise only when existing. Give another simile. Just as, great king, if there were no mirror, if there were no light, if there were no face, would a reflection arise? No, venerable sir. But when, great king, there is a mirror, there is light, there is a face, would a reflection arise? Yes, venerable sir, it would arise. Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise without existing; formations arise only when existing. You are skillful, venerable Nāgasena. The fifth question: On formations arising when existing. 6. The Question of the Vedagū 6. The king said: Venerable Nāgasena, is a vedagū found? And who, great king, is this vedagū? Venerable sir, it is the inner living being who sees forms with the eye, hears sounds with the ear, smells odors with the nose, tastes flavors with the tongue, touches tangibles with the body, knows mental objects with the mind. Just as we, sitting here in the palace, through whichever window we wish to look, through that window we may look. We may look through the eastern window, we may look through the western window, we may look through the northern window, we may look through the southern window. Even so, venerable sir, this inner living being, through whichever door it wishes to look, through that door it looks. The Elder said: I will speak of the five doors, great king. Listen to it, and pay careful attention. If the inner living being sees forms with the eye, just as we, sitting here in the palace, through whichever window we wish to look, through that window we would see only forms. Through the eastern window we would see only forms, through the western window Would we see only forms? Through the northern window, would we see only forms? Through the southern window, would we see only forms? In the same way, by this inner life, by the ear, only forms should be seen. By the nose, only forms should be seen. By the tongue, only forms should be seen. By the body, only forms should be seen. By the mind, only forms should be seen. By the eye, only sounds should be heard. By the nose, only sounds should be heard. By the tongue, only sounds should be heard. By the body, only sounds should be heard. By the mind, only sounds should be heard. By the eye, only smells should be smelled. By the ear, only smells should be smelled. By the tongue, only smells should be smelled. By the body, only smells should be smelled. By the mind, only smells should be smelled. By the eye, only tastes should be tasted. By the ear, only tastes should be tasted. By the nose, only tastes should be tasted. By the body, only tastes should be tasted. By the mind, only tastes should be tasted. By the eye, only tangibles should be touched. By the ear, only tangibles should be touched. By the nose, only tangibles should be touched. By the tongue, only tangibles should be touched. By the mind, only tangibles should be touched. By the eye, only mental objects should be known. By the ear, only mental objects should be known. By the nose, only mental objects should be known. By the tongue, only mental objects should be known. By the body, only mental objects should be known?" "No, venerable sir." "Indeed, great king, your former statement does not fit with the latter, nor the latter with the former. Just as, great king, we, sitting here in the palace, with these latticed windows opened, through the vast open space outside, see forms very clearly, in the same way, by this inner life, when the eye-doors are opened, through the vast open space, forms should be seen very clearly. When the ear-doors are opened... When the nose-door is opened... When the tongue-door is opened... When the body-door is opened, through the vast that sound should be heard, or smell sniffed, or taste tasted, or touch felt, by space?” “No, venerable sir.” “This does not fit, great king, the former with the latter, nor the latter with the former. Or again, great king, if this servant were to go out and stand outside the gate, would you know, great king, ‘This servant has gone out and is standing outside the gate’?” “Yes, venerable sir, I would know.” “Or again, great king, if this servant were to come inside and stand before you, would you know, great king, ‘This servant has come inside and is standing before me’?” “Yes, venerable sir, I would know.” “In the same way, great king, if that life-principle were inside, when tastes are placed on the tongue, would it know sourness or saltiness, bitterness or pungency, astringency or sweetness?” “Yes, venerable sir, it would know.” “When those tastes have entered inside, would it know sourness or saltiness, bitterness or pungency, astringency or sweetness?” “No, venerable sir.” “This does not fit, great king, the former with the latter, nor the latter with the former. Or again, great king, if some man were to have a hundred pots of honey brought, and fill a honey-tub, and cover a man’s mouth, and put him in the honey-tub, would that man know, great king, whether the honey was good or not good?” “No, venerable sir.” “For what reason?” “Because, venerable sir, the honey would not have entered his mouth.” “This does not fit, great king, the former with the latter, nor the latter with the former.” “I am not able to converse with you, speaker; please, venerable sir, explain the meaning.” The Elder instructed King Milinda with a discourse connected to Abhidhamma: “Here, great king, dependent on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises. Co-arising with that, contact, feeling, perception, volition, one-pointedness, life-faculty, attention— thus these phenomena arise due to conditions. No knower is found here. Dependent on ear and sounds… Dependent on mind and mental objects, mind-consciousness arises. Concomitant with that are contact, feeling, perception, volition, one-pointedness, life-faculty, attention— thus these phenomena arise due to conditions. No knower is found here.” “You are skillful, Venerable Nāgasena.” The Sixth Question on the Knower. 7. The Question on Eye-Consciousness, etc. 7. The king said, “Venerable Nāgasena, where eye-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness also arise?” “Yes, great king, where eye-consciousness arises, mind-consciousness also arises.” “Which, Venerable Nāgasena, arises first, eye-consciousness, then mind-consciousness, or does mind-consciousness arise first, then eye-consciousness?” “First, great king, eye-consciousness arises, then mind-consciousness.” “Does, Venerable Nāgasena, eye-consciousness command mind-consciousness, ‘Where I arise, you also arise there,’ or does mind-consciousness command eye-consciousness, ‘Where you will arise, I also will arise there’?” “No, great king, there is no conversation between them.” “How, Venerable Nāgasena, where eye-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness also arise?” “Due to inclination, great king, and due to being a door, and due to being practiced, and due to being accustomed.” “How, Venerable Nāgasena, due to inclination, where eye-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness also arise? Give an analogy.” “What do you think, great king, when it rains, by which way would the water go?” “By whichever way is low, Venerable Sir, by that way it would go.” “Then at another time, if it were to rain, by which way would that water go?” ‘Where, venerable sir, the former water went, that too would go there.’ "Now, great king, does the former water command the latter water, 'Where I go, you too go there,' or does the latter water command the former water, 'Where you will go, I too will go there'?" "No, venerable sir, there is no communication between them, they go by their own nature." "Just so, great king, by their own nature, where eye-consciousness arises,