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Milinda's Questions The Great Chapter The Question of Designation Then King Milinda approached the venerable Nāgasena. Having approached, he exchanged greetings with the venerable Nāgasena, and after exchanging courteous and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. The venerable Nāgasena also greeted him in return, and by that, he pleased the mind of King Milinda. Then King Milinda said to the venerable Nāgasena, "How, venerable sir, are you known? What is your name, venerable sir?" "I am known as 'Nāgasena,' great king. My fellow monks address me as 'Nāgasena,' great king. But my parents give names such as 'Nāgasena,' or 'Sūrasena,' or 'Vīrasena,' or 'Sīhasena.' But, great king, 'Nāgasena' is merely a designation, a common usage, a term, a mere name. There is no person to be found here." Then King Milinda said, "Listen to me, sirs, five hundred Yonakas and eighty thousand monks! This Nāgasena says, 'There is no person to be found here.' Is it proper to approve of that?" Then King Milinda said to the venerable Nāgasena, "If, venerable Nāgasena, no person is to be found, then who gives you robes, almsfood, lodging, and requisites for the sick, such as medicines? Who consumes them? Who observes morality? Who practices meditation? Who realizes the paths, fruits, and Nibbāna? Who takes life? Who takes what is not given? Who engages in sexual misconduct? Who speaks falsehood? Who drinks intoxicants? Who commits the five heinous crimes? Therefore, there is no wholesome, there is no unwholesome, there is no doer or instigator of wholesome and unwholesome deeds, there is no fruit or result of good and bad deeds. If, venerable Nāgasena, one kills you, there is no killing of a living being for him. And for you, venerable Nāgasena, there is no teacher." there is no preceptor, there is no ordination. As you say, 'My fellow monks, O Great King, address me as Nāgasena,' 'Who is this Nāgasena here? Is it, Venerable Sir, the hair that is Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Is it the body hair that is Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'The nails... the teeth... the skin... the flesh... the sinews... the bones... the bone marrow... the kidneys... the heart... the liver... the pleura... the spleen... the lungs... the intestines... the mesentery... the stomach... the feces... the bile... the phlegm... the pus... the blood... the sweat... the fat... the tears... the grease... the saliva... the snot... the joint-fluid... the urine... the brain in the head that is Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Then, Venerable Sir, is form Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Is feeling Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Is perception Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Are mental formations Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Is consciousness Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Then, Venerable Sir, are form, feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Then, Venerable Sir, is Nāgasena something other than form, feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness?' 'No, Great King.' 'Venerable Sir, though I ask and ask, I do not find Nāgasena. Is it just the sound "Nāgasena" that is Nāgasena?' 'No, Great King.' 'Who then is Nāgasena here? You, Venerable Sir, speak falsely, a lie; there is no Nāgasena.' Then the Venerable Nāgasena said to King Milinda: 'You, O Great King, are a Khattiya, delicate, exceedingly delicate. For you, O Great King, walking at midday, on hot ground, on hot sand, on rough gravel and pebbles, your feet ache, your body becomes weary, your mind is distressed, and Body-consciousness arises accompanied by pain, Have you come by foot, Or by vehicle?" "I do not come by foot, sir, I have come by chariot." "If you, great king, have come by chariot, Declare the chariot to me. Is the pole the chariot, great king?" "No, sir." "Is the axle the chariot?" "No, sir." "Are the wheels the chariot?" "No, sir." "Is the chariot-frame the chariot?" "No, sir." "Is the chariot-shaft the chariot?" "No, sir." "Is the yoke the chariot?" "No, sir." "Are the reins the chariot?" "No, sir." "Is the goad-stick the chariot?" "No, sir." "Is it, great king, The pole, axle, wheels, chariot-frame, Chariot-shaft, yoke, reins, and goad Together that are the chariot?" "No, sir." "But is it, great king, Something other than the pole, axle, wheels, Chariot-frame, chariot-shaft, yoke, reins, and goad That is the chariot?" "No, sir." "I, great king, Questioning and questioning, Do not find a chariot. Is it just the word 'chariot' That is the chariot, great king?" "No, sir." "What then is the chariot here? You, great king, speak falsely, You speak a lie. There is no chariot. You, great king, are the foremost king In the whole of Jambudīpa. Fearing whom do you speak a lie? Let these five hundred Yonakas And eighty thousand monks listen to me. This King Milinda says, 'I have come by chariot.' If you, great king, have come by chariot, And being asked, 'Declare the chariot to me,' You cannot produce the chariot, Is it proper to approve of that?" When this was said, The five hundred Yonakas, Giving applause to the venerable Nāgasena, Said to King Milinda: "Now indeed, great king, You may speak if you are able!" Then King Milinda Said to the venerable Nāgasena: "I do not speak falsely, venerable Nāgasena. It is by depending on the pole, And by depending on the axle, And by depending on the wheels, And by depending on the chariot... depending on the frame and depending on the chariot-pole, the designation, the appellation, the concept, the current usage, the mere name 'chariot' exists." "Well, great king, you understand the chariot. Just so, great king, depending on my hairs, and depending on my body-hairs... ...depending on the brain in the head, and depending on form, and depending on feeling, and depending on perception, and depending on mental formations, and depending on consciousness, the designation, the appellation, the concept, the current usage, the mere name 'Nāgasena' exists. In ultimate reality, no person is found here. This was spoken, great king, by the bhikkhunī Vajirā in the presence of the Blessed One: 'Just as when the parts are assembled, the word 'chariot' arises; Even so, when the aggregates exist, the convention 'being' arises.'" "Wonderful, Venerable Nāgasena! Amazing, Venerable Nāgasena! Exceedingly clever are the answers to the questions you have given! If the Buddha were alive, he would applaud! Excellent, excellent, Nāgasena! Exceedingly clever are the answers to the questions you have given!" The Question of Designation, the first. 2. The Question of the Number of Years 2. "How many years old are you, Venerable Nāgasena?" "I am seven years old, great king." "What are these seven, Venerable? Are you seven, or is the counting seven?" Now at that time, the shadow of King Milinda, adorned with all ornaments, decorated and prepared, was seen on the ground, and his shadow was seen in a water-pot. Then the Venerable Nāgasena said to King Milinda: "This shadow of yours, great king, is seen on the ground and in the water-pot. But, great king, are you the king, or is the shadow the king?" "I, Venerable Nāgasena, am the king. This shadow is not the king. But depending on me, the shadow exists." "Just so, great king, the counting of years is seven, but I am not seven. But depending on me, the seven exists. It is like a shadow, great king." "Wonderful, Venerable Nāgasena, amazing..." "Venerable Nāgasena, your answers to the questions are exceedingly wonderful!" The Second Question on the Number of Years. 3. The Question of Examination 3. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, will you converse with me?" "If, great king, you will converse with the talk of the wise, I will converse. But if you will converse with the talk of kings, I will not converse." "How, Venerable Nāgasena, do the wise converse?" "In the conversation of the wise, great king, there is winding up, there is unwinding, there is censure, there is counter-action, there is trust, there is counter-trust, and the wise are not angry because of it. Thus, great king, do the wise converse." "But how, Venerable, do kings converse?" "In the conversation of kings, great king, they acknowledge one point. Whoever contradicts that point, they decree a punishment for him: 'Inflict punishment upon him!' Thus, great king, do kings converse." "Venerable, I will converse with the talk of the wise, not with the talk of kings. Let the venerable one converse freely, just as he converses with a bhikkhu, or a novice, or a lay follower, or a monastery attendant. Let the venerable one converse freely, do not be afraid." "Very well, great king," the Elder approved. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, I will ask a question." "Ask, great king." "I have asked you, Venerable." "It has been answered, great king." "But what, Venerable, have you answered?" "But what, great king, have you asked?" The Third Question of Examination. 4. The Question of the Endless Body 4. Then it occurred to King Milinda: "This bhikkhu is wise, and capable of conversing with me. Many will be the points I will have to ask. Before those points are asked, the sun will set. What if I tomorrow in the inner palace he would converse." Then indeed the king said to Devamantī: "Well then, Devamantī, you should inform the venerable one: 'Tomorrow in the inner palace there will be a conversation with the king.'" Having said this, King Milinda rose from his seat, took leave of the elder Nāgasena, mounted his chariot, and departed, reciting "Nāgasena, Nāgasena." Then indeed Devamantī said to the venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable sir, King Milinda says this: 'Tomorrow in the inner palace there will be a conversation with the king.'" "Very well," the elder approved. Then indeed, after that night had passed, Devamantī, Anantakāya, Maṅkura, and Sabbadinna approached King Milinda. Having approached, they said to King Milinda: "Let the venerable Nāgasena come, great king." "Yes, let him come." "With how many monks should he come?"