English
"Initial application, O great king, has the characteristic of directing." "Give an analogy." "Just as, O great king, a carpenter directs well-prepared wood into a joint, just so, O great king, initial application has the characteristic of directing." "You are skillful, Venerable Nāgasena!" The thirteenth question on the characteristic of Initial Application. 14. The Question on the Characteristic of Sustained Application 14. "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of sustained application?" "Sustained application, O great king, has the characteristic of pondering." "Give an analogy." "Just as, O great king, a bronze gong, when struck, afterwards resonates and reverberates, just as, O great king, the striking, so should initial application be seen. Just as the resonating, so should sustained application be seen." "You are skillful, Venerable Nāgasena!" The fourteenth question on the characteristic of Sustained Application. The Third Chapter on Sustained Application. In this chapter, fourteen questions. 4. The Chapter on Nibbāna 1. The Question on Distinguishing Contact, etc. 1. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible to distinguish and differentiate these phenomena, which have come together as one, and to make known their distinctness?" 'This is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is initial application, this is sustained application'?" "It is not possible, great king, for these states, having come together, to be separated out, one by one, and to declare, 'This is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is initial application, this is sustained application'." "Give an analogy," he said. "Just as, great king, a king's cook might prepare a broth, or a sauce, and into it he might put curds, he might put salt, he might put ginger, he might put cumin, he might put pepper, and he might put other ingredients. Then the king might say to him, 'Bring me the taste of the curds, bring me the taste of the salt, bring me the taste of the ginger, bring me the taste of the cumin, bring me the taste of the pepper, bring me the taste of all the ingredients put in.' Would it be possible, great king, for those tastes, having come together, to be separated out, one by one, and to bring the taste, whether sourness, or saltiness, or bitterness, or pungency, or astringency, or sweetness?" "No, venerable sir, it is not possible for those tastes, having come together, to be separated out, one by one, and to bring the taste, whether sourness, or saltiness, or bitterness, or pungency, or astringency, or sweetness. But they do manifest with their own characteristics." "Just so, great king, it is not possible for these states, having come together, to be separated out, one by one, and to declare, 'This is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is initial application, this is sustained application.' But they do manifest with their own characteristics." "You are clever, venerable Nāgasena." The first question on distinguishing contact, etc. 2. Nāgasena's Question 2. The elder said, "Salt "Is it, great king, knowable by the eye?" "Yes, venerable sir, knowable by the eye." "Understand well, great king!" "But what, venerable sir, is knowable by the tongue?" "Yes, great king, knowable by the tongue." "But does the tongue, venerable sir, know all salt?" "Yes, great king, the tongue knows all salt." "If, venerable sir, the tongue knows all salt, why then do they bring it with carts and oxen? Should they not bring just the salt?" "It is not possible, great king, to bring just the salt. These phenomena are of one nature, but the objects are diverse, and salt has weight. But is it possible, great king, to weigh salt with a balance?" "Yes, venerable sir, it is possible." "It is not possible, great king, to weigh salt with a balance; weight is weighed with a balance." "You are clever, venerable Nāgasena!" The Second Question of Nāgasena. 3. The Question on the Production of the Five Sense-Bases by Kamma 3. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, these five sense-bases, are they produced by diverse kammas, or by one kamma?" "By diverse kammas, great king, not by one kamma." "Give an analogy." "What do you think, great king? If diverse seeds were sown in one field, would diverse fruits be produced from those diverse seeds?" "Yes, venerable sir, they would be produced." "Even so, great king, these five sense-bases, are produced by diverse kammas, not by one kamma." "You are clever, venerable Nāgasena!" The Third Question on the Production of the Five Sense-Bases by Kamma. 4. The Question on the Diversity of Kamma 4. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason are humans not all alike? Some are short-lived, some are long-lived; some are very sickly, some are not very sickly; some are ugly, some are beautiful; some have little influence, some have great influence; some have little wealth, some have great wealth; some are of low birth, some are of high birth; some are foolish, some are wise?” The Elder said, “Why is it, great king, that not all trees are alike? Some are sour, some are salty, some are bitter, some are pungent, some are astringent, some are sweet?” “I suppose, venerable sir, it is due to the variety of their seeds.” “Even so, great king, due to the variety of their kamma, not all humans are alike. Some are short-lived, some are long-lived; some are sickly, some are healthy; some are ugly, some are beautiful; some are of little influence, some are of great influence; some are of little wealth, some are of great wealth; some are of low birth, some are of high birth; some are foolish, some are wise. This was also said by the Blessed One, great king: ‘Beings, young man, are owners of their kamma, heirs of their kamma, born of their kamma, bound by their kamma, supported by their kamma. Kamma divides beings into inferior and superior.’” “You are capable, venerable Nāgasena.” The Fourth Question: The Variety of Kamma. 5. The Question on Exertion 5. The king said, “Venerable Nāgasena, you say, ‘How might this suffering cease, and no other suffering arise?’ ‘For this purpose, great king, is our going forth.’” “Why exert oneself beforehand? Should one not exert oneself when the time comes?” The Elder said, “When the time comes, great king, exertion is useless. Exertion beforehand is useful.” “Give an analogy.” “What do you think, great king, if you were thirsty, would you then have a well dug, or a pond dug, thinking, ‘I will drink water’?” “No, venerable sir.” “Even so, great king, when the time comes, exertion is useless. Exertion beforehand is useful.” “Give a further analogy.” “What do you think, great king, if you were hungry, would you then have a field plowed, rice planted, grain brought in, thinking, ‘I will eat food’?” “No, venerable sir.” Thus. "Even so, great king, when the time has come, effort is useless. Effort is useful beforehand. "Make a further simile," he said. "What do you think, great king, if battle were imminent for you, would you then dig a trench, build a wall, build a gatehouse, build a watchtower, bring in grain? Would you then train in elephants, train in horses, train in chariots, train in bows, train in swords?" "No, venerable sir." "Even so, great king, when the time has come, effort is useless. Effort is useful beforehand. This too, great king, was spoken by the Blessed One: 'One should do beforehand what one knows is for one's own good. Not with the thought of a carter should a wise one strive. 'Just as a carter, leaving the smooth, main road, ascends a rough path, and like one whose axle is broken, laments. 'So, having turned away from Dhamma, and followed non-Dhamma, the fool, fallen into the mouth of death, like one whose axle is broken, laments.' "You are capable, venerable Nāgasena." The fifth question on the doing of effort. 6. The question on the heat of hell-fire. 6. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, you say that 'the fire of hell is much hotter than ordinary fire. Even a small stone, thrown into ordinary fire, even if it is burned for a day, does not disintegrate. But a stone the size of a gabled house, thrown into hell-fire, disintegrates in an instant.' I do not believe this statement. And you also say, 'the beings born there, even if they are burned in hell for many thousands of years, do not disintegrate.' I do not believe that statement either." The elder said: "What do you think, great king, are there not those crocodiles and porpoises Female antelopes, female tortoises, female peacocks, female pigeons, do they eat hard stones and gravel? "Yes, venerable sir, they eat them." "And do those, having entered their stomach, dissolve?" "Yes, venerable sir, they dissolve." "But the embryo in their womb, does it also dissolve?" "No, venerable sir." "For what reason?" "I believe, venerable sir, it does not dissolve because of kamma." "Just so, great king, because of kamma, beings in hell, though tormented in hell for many thousands of years, do not dissolve. And this was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One: 'He does not die until that evil kamma is exhausted.'" "Give another simile." "What do you think, great king, do those female lions, female tigers, female leopards, female dogs, eat hard bones and flesh?" "Yes, venerable sir, they eat them." "And do those, having entered their stomach, dissolve?" "Yes, venerable sir, they dissolve." "But the embryo in their womb, does it also dissolve?" "No, venerable sir." "For what reason?" "I believe, venerable sir, it does not dissolve because of kamma." "Just so, great king, because of kamma, beings in hell, though tormented in hell for many thousands of years, do not dissolve." "Give another simile." "What do you think, great king, do those delicate Greek women, delicate warrior women, delicate brahmin women,