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and depart, saying, ‘I will take it tomorrow.’ The next day, it would become curds. He would come and say, ‘Give me the pot of milk.’ He would show the curds. The other would say, ‘I did not buy curds from you; give me the pot of milk.’ He would say, ‘Unbeknownst to you, the milk has become curds.’ They, disputing, would come to you. Whose side would you take, great king?” “The cowherd’s, venerable sir.” “For what reason?” “Although he might say that, it was born from that very one.” “Even so, great king, although the mind-and-body at death is one, and the mind-and-body at rebirth is another, and also that was born from it, therefore he is not freed from evil deeds. "You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena." The sixth question on the unity and diversity of name-and-form. 7. The question on whether the Elder will be reborn or not. 7. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, will you be reborn?" "Enough, great king, what is the use of asking that? Have I not already told you, 'If, great king, I am with clinging, I will be reborn; if I am without clinging, I will not be reborn'?" "Give an analogy." "Just as, great king, some man might perform a service for the king. The king, pleased, might grant him an office, and he, by that office, endowed and furnished with the five strands of sensual pleasure, might enjoy them, and if he were to announce to the people, 'The king does not do anything for me.' Would that man, great king, be acting rightly?" "No, Venerable sir." "Even so, great king, what is the use of asking that? Have I not already told you, 'If I am with clinging, I will be reborn; if I am without clinging, I will not be reborn'?" "You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena." The seventh question on whether the Elder will be reborn or not. 8. The question on the rebirth of name-and-form. 8. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, what you call 'name-and-form', what among them is name, and what is form?" "That which is gross there, great king, that is form; those subtle mental and consciousness-related phenomena there, that is name." "Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason does name alone not get reborn, or form alone?" "These phenomena, great king, are mutually dependent; they arise together." "Give an analogy." "Just as, great king, there would be no yolk in a hen, nor would there be an egg; that which is yolk there, and that which is egg, both are mutually dependent, their arising is together. Even so, great king, O great king, if there were no name there, there would also be no form. Whatever name is there, whatever form is there, both of these are mutually dependent; their arising is from one source. Thus it has run on for a long time. You are clever, venerable Nāgasena. The eighth question on the reconnection of name-and-form. 9. The Question on Time 9. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, what is this 'long time' that you speak of, what is this time?" "The past, O great king, is time; the future is time; the present is time." "But venerable sir, do all times exist?" "Some time, O great king, exists, some does not." "Which, venerable sir, exists, and which does not?" "Those formations, O great king, that are past, gone, ceased, changed, that time does not exist. Those phenomena that are results, and those phenomena that are result-producing, and those that give rebirth elsewhere, that time exists. Those beings who have died and arisen elsewhere, that time exists. Those beings who have died and have not arisen elsewhere, that time does not exist. And those beings who are fully extinguished (parinibbūta), that time does not exist because they are fully extinguished." You are clever, venerable Nāgasena. The ninth question on time. The second chapter on Time. In this chapter, there are nine questions. 3. The Chapter on Investigation 1. The Question on the Root of Time 1. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the root of past time, what is the root of future time, what is the root of present time?" "Of past time, O great king, and of future time, and of present time, ignorance is the root. Conditioned by ignorance are formations; conditioned by formations is consciousness; conditioned by consciousness is name-and-form; conditioned by name-and-form are the six sense bases; conditioned by the six sense bases is contact; conditioned by contact is feeling; conditioned by feeling is craving; conditioned by craving is clinging; conditioned by clinging is becoming; conditioned by becoming is birth; conditioned by birth are old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair." sorrows arise. Thus, of this entire mass of suffering, of this duration, the prior end is not known. "You are skillful, Venerable Nāgasena." The First Question on the Root of Duration. 2. The Question on the Prior End 2. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, that which you say, 'the prior end is not known,' give an analogy for it." "Just as, great king, a man might place a small seed in the earth, then a sprout would arise, and gradually attain growth, development, and abundance, and bear fruit. Then, taking the seed, he would plant it again, and from that, too, a sprout would arise, and gradually attain growth, development, and abundance, and bear fruit. Is there an end to this succession?" "No, Venerable sir." "Just so, great king, the prior end of duration is not known." "Give another analogy." "Just as, great king, there might be a hen's egg, from the egg a hen, from the hen an egg. Is there an end to this succession?" "No, Venerable sir." "Just so, great king, the prior end of duration is not known." "Give another analogy." The Elder, drawing a circle on the ground, said to King Milinda: "Great king, is there an end to this circle?" "No, Venerable sir." "Just so, great king, these circles were spoken of by the Blessed One: 'Dependent on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises; the meeting of the three is contact; dependent on contact, feeling; dependent on feeling, craving; dependent on craving, clinging; dependent on clinging, kamma; from kamma, the eye is born again.' Is there an end to this succession?" "No, Venerable sir." "'Dependent on the ear and sounds... etc. ... dependent on the mind and mental phenomena, mind-consciousness arises; the meeting of the three is contact; dependent on contact, feeling; dependent on feeling, craving; dependent on craving..." from passing away, clinging; from clinging, kamma; from kamma, mind is born again. Is there an end to this continuity? "No, venerable sir." "Just so, great king, the past's beginning is not discerned." "You are skillful, venerable Nāgasena." The Second Question on the Beginning. 3. The Question on Discerning the Beginning 3. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, as to what you say, 'the beginning is not discerned,' what is that beginning?" "Great king, the past time, that is the beginning." "Venerable Nāgasena, as to what you say, 'the beginning is not discerned,' venerable sir, is then every beginning not discerned?" "Some, great king, is discerned, some is not discerned." "Which, venerable sir, is discerned, which is not discerned?" "Before this, great king, in every way, in all respects, in all ways, there was no ignorance—this beginning is not discerned. That which, not having been, comes to be, and having been, passes away—this beginning is discerned." "Venerable Nāgasena, that which, not having been, comes to be, and having been, passes away—does it not, being cut at both ends, cease to exist?" "If, great king, being cut at both ends, it ceases to exist, can that which is cut at both ends be made to grow?" "Yes, that too can be made to grow." "Venerable sir, I am not asking if it can be made to grow from the end." "Yes, it can be made to grow." "Give an analogy." The Elder made an analogy of a tree for him, and the aggregates are the seeds of the entire mass of suffering. "You are skillful, venerable Nāgasena." The Third Question on Discerning the Beginning. 4. The Question on the Arising of Formations 4. The king said, "Venerable Nāgasena, are there any formations that arise?" "Yes, great king, there are formations that arise." "Which are they, venerable sir?" "When, great king, there is an eye and there are forms, eye-consciousness arises; when there is eye-consciousness, eye-contact arises, When there is eye-contact, there is feeling. When there is feeling, there is craving. When there is craving, there is clinging. When there is clinging, there is becoming. When there is becoming, there is birth. When there is birth, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair arise. Thus, this entire mass of suffering comes into being. But when, great king, there is no eye, and no forms, eye-consciousness does not arise. When eye-consciousness does not arise, eye-contact does not arise. When eye-contact does not arise, feeling does not arise. When feeling does not arise, craving does not arise. When craving does not arise, clinging does not arise. When clinging does not arise, becoming does not arise. When becoming does not arise, birth does not arise. When birth does not arise, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair do not arise. Thus, this entire mass of suffering ceases.” “You are skillful, Venerable Nāgasena.” The fourth question on the arising of formations. 5. The question on formations arising from existing things. 5. The king said, “Venerable Nāgasena, are there any formations which arise without existing?” “There are no formations, great king, which arise without existing. Only existing formations, great king, arise.” “Give an analogy.” “What do you think, great king, did this house, where you are seated, arise without existing?” “Nothing here, Venerable, arose without existing. Only existing things arose. Indeed, Venerable, these timbers were in the forest, and this clay was in the earth. By the appropriate effort of women and men, this house was produced.”