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"' Would they then come and report to him: 'There is indeed another world, there are spontaneously arisen beings, there is fruit and result of good and bad deeds'?" "No indeed, good Kassapa. For we, good Kassapa, might even be long dead. And who would report this to good Kassapa: 'There are Tāvatiṃsa gods' or 'The Tāvatiṃsa gods have such a long lifespan'? We do not believe good Kassapa: 'There are Tāvatiṃsa gods' or 'The Tāvatiṃsa gods have such a long lifespan'." The Analogy of the Born-Blind Man 418. "Just as, O King, a born-blind man would not see black and white forms, would not see blue forms, would not see yellow forms, would not see red forms, would not see crimson forms, would not see even and uneven, would not see star forms, would not see the moon and sun. He would say thus: 'There are no black and white forms, there is no seer of black and white forms. There are no blue forms, there is no seer of blue forms. There are no yellow forms, there is no seer of yellow forms.'" There are no red forms, there is no seer of red forms. There are no crimson forms, there is no seer of crimson forms. There is no even and uneven, there is no seer of even and uneven. There are no star forms, there is no seer of star forms. There are no moon and sun, there is no seer of moon and sun. ‘I do not know this, I do not see this, therefore it does not exist.’ Would he be speaking rightly, O prince, if he spoke thus?” “No indeed, good Kassapa. There are black and white forms, there is a seer of black and white forms. There are blue forms, there is a seer of blue forms… There is even and uneven, there is a seer of even and uneven. There are star forms, there is a seer of star forms. There are moon and sun, there is a seer of moon and sun. ‘I do not know this, I do not see this, therefore it does not exist.’ Indeed, good Kassapa, he would not be speaking rightly if he spoke thus.” “Just so, O prince, you seem to me like a man born blind, that you speak to me thus.” “Who tells good Kassapa this – ‘there are Tāvatiṃsa gods,’ or ‘the Tāvatiṃsa gods are of such a long lifespan’? We do not believe good Kassapa – ‘there are Tāvatiṃsa gods,’ or ‘the Tāvatiṃsa gods are of such a long lifespan’.” “Indeed, O prince, the other world is not to be seen thus, as you imagine, with this fleshy eye. Those recluses and brahmins, O prince, who resort to remote forest and wilderness dwellings, they, dwelling there heedful, ardent, resolute, purify the divine eye. They, with the purified divine eye, which surpasses human sight, see this world and the other, and spontaneously arisen beings. Thus indeed, O prince, is the other world to be seen; not as you imagine, with this fleshy eye. By this method too, O prince, So be it – ‘Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously arisen beings, there is fruit and result of good and bad deeds.’’’ 419. ‘‘Although Venerable Kassapa says this, yet it occurs to me thus: ‘Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously arisen beings, there is no fruit and result of good and bad deeds.’’ ‘‘Is there then, Rajanya, a reason… (etc.)… There is, good Kassapa, a reason… (etc.)… How so, Rajanya?’’ ‘‘Here, good Kassapa, I see ascetics and brahmins virtuous, of good conduct, desiring to live, not desiring to die, desiring happiness, averse to suffering. It occurs to me thus, good Kassapa: If these venerable ascetics and brahmins, virtuous, of good conduct, were to know thus: ‘It would be better for us to die from here,’ then these venerable ascetics and brahmins, virtuous, of good conduct, would eat poison, or would use a weapon, or would hang themselves and die, or would fall from a precipice. But because these venerable ascetics and brahmins, virtuous, of good conduct, do not know thus: ‘It would be better for us to die from here,’ therefore these venerable ascetics and brahmins, virtuous, of good conduct, desiring to live, not desiring to die, desiring happiness, averse to suffering, do not kill themselves. This too, good Kassapa, is a reason, by which reason it occurs to me thus: ‘Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously arisen beings, there is no fruit and result of good and bad deeds.’’’ The Analogy of the Pregnant Woman 420. ‘‘In that case, Rajanya, I will make an analogy for you. By an analogy, some discerning men here understand the meaning of what is said. Formerly, Rajanya, a certain brahmin had two wives. One had a son, about ten or twelve years old, the other was pregnant, about to give birth. Then that brahmin died. Then that young man, his stepmother He said this: "Whatever here, lady, wealth or grain, silver or gold, all that is mine. Nothing is for you. It belongs to my father, lady, hand over the inheritance!" When this was said, that brahmin woman said to that young man: "Wait a while, my dear, until I give birth. If it is a boy, a share will be his too. If it is a girl, she will be useful to you too." A second time, indeed, that young man said to his stepmother: "Whatever here, lady, wealth or grain, silver or gold, all that is mine. Nothing is for you. It belongs to my father, lady, hand over the inheritance!" A second time, indeed, that brahmin woman said to that young man: "Wait a while, my dear, until I give birth. If it is a boy, a share will be his too. If it is a girl, she will be useful to you too." A third time, indeed, that young man said to his stepmother: "Whatever here, lady, wealth or grain, silver or gold, all that is mine. Nothing is for you. It belongs to my father, lady, hand over the inheritance!" Then, indeed, that brahmin woman, taking a knife, entered a chamber and cut open her belly – "Until I give birth, whether a boy or a girl!" She destroyed herself, her life, her fetus, and her property. Just as that foolish, inexperienced woman, fell into ruin and misfortune, seeking an inheritance improperly, even so, indeed, you, O king, foolish and inexperienced, will fall into ruin and misfortune, seeking the other world improperly; just as that brahmin woman, foolish and inexperienced, fell into ruin and misfortune, seeking an inheritance improperly. Indeed, O king, ascetics and brahmins, virtuous and of good conduct, do not ripen the unripe; but they await the ripening. Indeed, O King, the wise value the life of virtuous ascetics and brahmins of good conduct. As long as, O King, these virtuous ascetics and brahmins of good conduct endure for a long time, so do they generate much merit, and they practice for the welfare of many, for the happiness of many, out of compassion for the world, for the good, for the benefit, for the happiness of gods and humans. By this reasoning, O King, let it be so for you – 'that there is another world, there are spontaneously arisen beings, there is fruit and result of good and bad deeds.' 421. "Although Master Kassapa says this, yet this is what occurs to me here – 'that there is no other world, there are no spontaneously arisen beings, there is no fruit and result of good and bad deeds.' "Is there, O King, a reasoning...?" "There is, Master Kassapa, a reasoning..." "How so, O King?" "Here, Master Kassapa, my men seize a criminal, a wrongdoer, and present him to me – 'This, sir, is a criminal, a wrongdoer; inflict upon him whatever punishment you wish.' And I say this – 'Well then, sirs, put this man alive into a pot, cover its mouth, bind it with wet leather, apply a thick layer of wet clay, place it on a hearth, and give it fire.' They, assenting with 'Yes, sir,' put that man alive into a pot, cover its mouth, bind it with wet leather, apply a thick layer of wet clay, place it on a hearth, and give it fire. When we know 'that man is dead,' then we take down the pot, break it open, uncover its mouth, and slowly look inside – 'perhaps we might see his life departing.' But we do not see his life departing. This, Master Kassapa, is also a reasoning, by which reasoning it occurs to me – 'that there is no... there is no other world, there are no spontaneously arisen beings, there is no fruit and result of good and bad deeds.’” The Simile of a Dream 422. “Then, O prince, I will question you about this, and you should answer as you deem fit. Do you recall, O prince, having gone to sleep during the day and seen a dream of delightful parks, delightful forests, delightful lands, delightful ponds?” “I do recall, good Kassapa, having gone to sleep during the day and seen a dream of delightful parks, delightful forests, delightful lands, delightful ponds.” “Were you guarded at that time by hunchbacks, dwarfs, female slaves, or young girls?” “Yes, good Kassapa, I was guarded at that time by hunchbacks, dwarfs, female slaves, or young girls.” “Did they see your life entering or departing?” “No, good Kassapa.” “If they, O prince, living while you were living, did not see your life entering or or departing, how then will you see the life of one who has died, entering or departing? By this reasoning too, O prince, let it be thus for you: ‘There is another world, there are spontaneously arisen beings, there is fruit and result of good and bad deeds.’” 423. “Although good Kassapa says this, yet it is thus for me in this matter: ‘There is no other world, there are no spontaneously arisen beings, there is no fruit and result of good and bad deeds.’” “Is there, O prince, a reason… (etc.) … “There is, good Kassapa, a reason… (etc.) … How so, O prince?” “Here, good Kassapa, my men seize a criminal, an offender, and present him to me: ‘This, sir, is your criminal, an offender; inflict upon him whatever punishment you wish.’ Then I thus I said: 'Well then, sirs, weigh this man while he is alive, then kill him by strangulation, and weigh him again.' They, assenting to me with 'Yes, sir,' weighed that man while he was alive, then killed him by strangulation, and weighed him again. When he is alive, then he is lighter, and softer, and more workable. But when he is dead, then he is heavier, and more rigid,