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For one attaining the earth kasina absorption, is everything earth? It should not be said thus. Then there is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasina absorption. Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasina absorption? Yes. Is there not earth, and does someone not attain earth as earth? Yes. If there is earth, and someone attains earth as earth, then it should certainly not be said – "There is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasina absorption." Is there earth, and is it perverted for one who attains earth as earth? Yes. Is there Nibbana, and is it perverted for one who attains Nibbana as Nibbana? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Then it should not be said – "There is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasina absorption." The discussion on perversion is concluded. 5. The Fifth Chapter (46) 4. The Discussion on Certainty 428. Is there knowledge for the uncertain to go to certainty? Yes. Is there knowledge for the certain to go to uncertainty? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is there no knowledge for the certain to go to uncertainty? Yes. Is there no knowledge for the uncertain to go to certainty? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is there knowledge for the uncertain to go to certainty? Yes. Is there knowledge for the certain to go to certainty? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is there no knowledge for the certain to go to certainty? Yes. Is there no knowledge for the uncertain to go to certainty? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is there for the uncertain to go to certainty... Is there knowledge? Yes. Is there knowledge for the undetermined to go to the undetermined? It should not be said so… Is there no knowledge for the undetermined to go to the undetermined? Yes. Is there no knowledge for the undetermined to go to the determined? It should not be said so… 429. Is there knowledge for the undetermined to go to the determined? Yes. Is there a determination for the undetermined to go to the determined? It should not be said so… Is there knowledge for the undetermined to go to the determined? Yes. Are there foundations of mindfulness… right exertions… bases of psychic power… faculties… powers… factors of enlightenment for the undetermined to go to the determined? It should not be said so… Is there no determination for the undetermined to go to the determined? Yes. If there is no determination for the undetermined to go to the determined, then it should certainly not be said – “there is knowledge for the undetermined to go to the determined.” Are there no foundations of mindfulness… factors of enlightenment for the undetermined to go to the determined? Yes. If there are no factors of enlightenment for the undetermined to go to the determined, then it should certainly not be said – “there is knowledge for the undetermined to go to the determined.” 430. Is there knowledge for the undetermined to go to the determined? Yes. Is there knowledge of the stream-entry path for a person who has attained lineage? It should not be said so… Is there knowledge of the stream-entry fruit for a person practicing for the realization of the stream-entry fruit? It should not be said so… Is there knowledge of arahantship for a person practicing for the realization of arahantship? It should not be said so… 431. Should it not be said – “there is knowledge for the undetermined to go to the determined”? Yes. Does not the Blessed One know – “this person will enter the fixed course of rightness, this person is capable of realizing the Dhamma”? Yes. If the Blessed One knows – “this person will enter the fixed course of rightness, this person is capable of realizing the Dhamma,” then it should certainly be said – “there is knowledge for the undetermined to go to the determined.” The discourse on determination is finished. 5. The Fifth Chapter (47) 5. P Discourse on Analytical Knowledges 432. Is all knowledge analytical knowledge? Yes. Is conventional knowledge analytical knowledge? It should not be said so...(etc.)... Is conventional knowledge analytical knowledge? Yes. Do all who know convention attain analytical knowledge? It should not be said so...(etc.)... Is all knowledge analytical knowledge? Yes. Is knowledge of others' minds analytical knowledge? It should not be said so...(etc.)... Is knowledge of others' minds analytical knowledge? Yes. Do all who know others' minds attain analytical knowledge? It should not be said so...(etc.).... Is all knowledge analytical knowledge? Yes. Is all wisdom analytical knowledge? It should not be said so...(etc.)... Is all wisdom analytical knowledge? Yes. One who has attained the earth kasina absorption has wisdom. Is that wisdom analytical knowledge? It should not be said so...(etc.)... water kasina...(etc.)... fire kasina...(etc.)... wind kasina...(etc.)... blue kasina...(etc.)... yellow kasina...(etc.)... red kasina...(etc.)... white kasina...(etc.)... the base of infinite space...(etc.)... the base of infinite consciousness...(etc.)... the base of nothingness...(etc.)... the base of neither perception nor non-perception, having attained...(etc.)... one giving a gift...(etc.)... one giving robes...(etc.)... one giving almsfood...(etc.)... one giving lodging...(etc.)... one giving requisites for the sick, medicine, and provisions has wisdom. Is that wisdom analytical knowledge? It should not be said so...(etc.).... 433. Should it not be said: "All knowledge is analytical knowledge"? Yes. There is supramundane wisdom. Is that wisdom not analytical knowledge? It should not be said so...(etc.)... Therefore, all knowledge is analytical knowledge. The Discourse on Analytical Knowledges is concluded. 5. The Fifth Chapter (48) 6. Discourse on Conventional Knowledge 434. Should it not be said: "Conventional knowledge has only truth as its object, not other objects"? Yes. Does not one who has attained the earth kasina absorption have knowledge, and is not the earth kasina a conventional truth? Yes. If one who has attained the earth kasina absorption has knowledge, and the earth kasina is a conventional truth... is conventional truth, then indeed it should be said – "Conventional knowledge has conventional truth as its object, and no other object." Should it not be said – "Conventional knowledge has conventional truth as its object, and no other object?" Yes... (ellipsis) Is it not that one who gives water kammaṭṭhāna... (ellipsis) fire kammaṭṭhāna... (ellipsis) requisites of medicine for the sick has knowledge, and the requisites of medicine for the sick are conventional truth? Yes. If one who gives requisites of medicine for the sick has knowledge, and the requisites of medicine for the sick are conventional truth, then indeed it should be said – "Conventional knowledge has conventional truth as its object, and no other object." 435. Does conventional knowledge have conventional truth as its object, and no other object? Yes. By that knowledge, does one fully understand suffering, abandon the origin, realize cessation, and develop the path? It should not be said so... (ellipsis) The discourse on conventional knowledge is concluded. 5. The Fifth Chapter (49) 7. Discourse on Mind as Object 436. Is the knowledge of discerning others' minds based only on the mind as its object, and no other object? Yes. Is there not someone who knows "a mind with lust, a mind with lust"? Yes. If there is someone who knows "a mind with lust, a mind with lust," then indeed it should not be said – "The knowledge of discerning others' minds has the mind as its object, and no other object." Is there not someone who knows a mind without lust... (ellipsis) a mind with hatred... a mind without hatred... a mind with delusion... a mind without delusion... a contracted mind... a scattered mind... an exalted mind... an unexalted mind... a surpassable mind... an unsurpassable mind... a concentrated mind... an unconcentrated mind... a liberated mind... (ellipsis) an unliberated mind as "an unliberated mind"? Yes. If there is someone who knows "an unliberated mind, an unliberated mind," then indeed it should not be said – "The knowledge of discerning others' minds has the mind as its object, and no other object." 437. Should knowledge with contact as its object be said – "In discerning others' minds, knowledge... "knowledge"? Yes. If knowledge of contact as object is to be called knowledge of mind-penetration, then it should not be said: "Knowledge of mind-penetration is only of mind as object, not of other objects." Is knowledge of feeling as object, knowledge of perception as object, knowledge of volition as object, knowledge of mind as object, knowledge of faith as object, knowledge of energy as object, knowledge of mindfulness as object, knowledge of concentration as object, knowledge of wisdom as object, knowledge of greed as object, knowledge of hatred as object, knowledge of delusion as object, knowledge of shamelessness as object to be called "knowledge of mind-penetration"? Yes. If knowledge of shamelessness as object is to be called knowledge of mind-penetration, then it should not be said: "Knowledge of mind-penetration is only of mind as object, not of other objects." Is knowledge of contact as object not to be called "knowledge of mind-penetration"? Yes. Is it knowledge of contact-penetration? It should not be said so. Is knowledge of feeling as object, knowledge of perception as object, knowledge of shamelessness as object not to be called "knowledge of mind-penetration"? Yes. Is it knowledge of shamelessness-penetration? It should not be said so. 438. Should it not be said: "Knowledge of mind-penetration is only of mind as object, not of other objects"? Yes. Is it not knowledge of mind-penetration? Yes. If it is knowledge of mind-penetration, then it should be said: "Knowledge of mind-penetration is only of mind as object, not of other objects."