English
5. Fifth Chapter (43) 1. Discourse on Liberation 418. Is liberation-knowledge liberation? Yes. Is all liberation-knowledge liberation? It should not be said so... Is liberation-knowledge liberation? Yes. Is reviewing-knowledge liberation? It should not be said so... Is liberation-knowledge liberation? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a gotrabhu person liberation? It should not be said so... Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of stream-entry liberation? Yes. Is the knowledge of a stream-enterer, the knowledge of one who has attained, acquired, realized, experienced the fruit of stream-entry (liberation)? It should not be said so... Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of once-returning liberation? Yes. Is the knowledge of a once-returner, the knowledge of one who has attained, acquired, realized, experienced the fruit of once-returning (liberation)? It should not be said so... Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of non-returning liberation? Yes. Is the knowledge of a non-returner, the knowledge of one who has attained, acquired, realized, experienced the fruit of non-returning (liberation)? It should not be said so... Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of arahantship liberation? Yes. Is the knowledge of an arahant, the knowledge of one who has attained, acquired, realized, experienced arahantship (liberation)? It should not be said so... 419. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person endowed with the fruit of stream-entry liberation? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of stream-entry liberation? It should not be said so... Is the liberation-knowledge of a person endowed with the fruit of once-returning liberation? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of once-returning liberation? It should not be said so... Is the liberation-knowledge of a person endowed with the fruit of non-returning liberation? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of non-returning liberation? ṃ is liberation? It should not be said thus…pe… Is the liberation-knowledge of a person endowed with the fruit of arahantship liberation? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of arahantship liberation? It should not be said thus…pe…. 420. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person endowed with the fruit of stream-entry liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruit? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of stream-entry liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruit? It should not be said thus…pe… Is the liberation-knowledge of a person endowed with the fruit of once-returning liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruit? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of once-returning liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruit? It should not be said thus…pe… Is the liberation-knowledge of a person endowed with the fruit of non-returning liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruit? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of non-returning liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruit? It should not be said thus…pe… Is the liberation-knowledge of a person endowed with the fruit of arahantship liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruit? Yes. Is the liberation-knowledge of a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of arahantship liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruit? It should not be said thus…pe…. The discourse on liberation is finished. 5. The Fifth Chapter (44) 2. The discourse on the knowledge of one beyond training 421. Does one in training have the knowledge of one beyond training? Yes. Does one in training know and see the state of one beyond training, dwell having realized and attained what is seen, known, and realized, and dwell having touched it with the body? It should not be said thus…pe… Does not one in training not know and not see the state of one beyond training, not dwell having realized and attained what is unseen, unknown, and unrealized, and not dwell having touched it with the body? Yes. If one in training does not know and does not see the state of one beyond training, does not dwell having realized and attained what is unseen, unknown, and unrealized, and does not dwells having touched with the body, but indeed it should not be said – “a learner has the knowledge of one beyond learning.” Does one beyond learning have the knowledge of one beyond learning? Does one beyond learning know and see the dhamma of one beyond learning? Does one beyond learning dwell having attained what is seen, known, and realized? Does one beyond learning dwell having touched with the body? Yes. Does a learner have the knowledge of one beyond learning? Does a learner know and see the dhamma of one beyond learning? Does a learner dwell having attained what is seen, known, and realized? Does a learner dwell having touched with the body? It should not be said thus…etc. 422. Does a learner have the knowledge of one beyond learning? Does a learner not know and not see the dhamma of one beyond learning? Does a learner not dwell having attained what is unseen, unknown, and unrealized? Does a learner not dwell having touched with the body? Yes. Does one beyond learning have the knowledge of one beyond learning? Does one beyond learning not know and not see the dhamma of one beyond learning? Does one beyond learning not dwell having attained what is unseen, unknown, and unrealized? Does one beyond learning not dwell having touched with the body? It should not be said thus…etc. Does a learner have the knowledge of one beyond learning? Yes. Does a person who has attained 'change of lineage' have knowledge of the stream-entry path? It should not be said thus…etc. Does a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of stream-entry have knowledge of the fruit of stream-entry? It should not be said thus…etc. (Similarly for once-returner fruit… non-returner fruit…) Does a person practicing for the realization of arahantship have knowledge of arahantship? It should not be said thus…etc. 423. Should it not be said – “a learner has the knowledge of one beyond learning”? Yes. Does not Venerable Ananda, a learner, know “the Blessed One is sublime,” and know “Elder Sariputta, Elder Mahamoggallana are sublime”? Yes. If Venerable Ananda, a learner, knows “the Blessed One is sublime,” and knows “Elder Sariputta, Elder Mahamoggallana are sublime,” then indeed it should be said – “a learner has the knowledge of one beyond learning.” The discourse on the knowledge of one beyond learning is finished. 5. The Fifth Chapter (45) 3. Discourse on Reversal 424. The attainment of the earth-kasina For one who has attained attainment, is their knowledge inverted? Yes. Is seeing permanence in impermanence an inversion? It should not be said thus... ...seeing pleasure in suffering... ...seeing self in non-self... Is seeing beauty in the unattractive an inversion? It should not be said thus... For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, is their knowledge inverted? Yes. Is it unwholesome? It should not be said thus... Is it not wholesome? Yes. If it is wholesome, then it should certainly not be said: "For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, their knowledge is inverted." Is seeing permanence in impermanence an inversion, and is that unwholesome? Yes. For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, is their knowledge inverted, and is that unwholesome? It should not be said thus... ...seeing pleasure in suffering... ...seeing self in non-self... Is seeing beauty in the unattractive an inversion, and is that unwholesome? Yes. For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, is their knowledge inverted, and is that unwholesome? It should not be said thus... 425. For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, is their knowledge inverted, and is that unwholesome? Yes. Is seeing permanence in impermanence an inversion, and is that wholesome? It should not be said thus... For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, is their knowledge inverted, and is that unwholesome? Yes. ...seeing pleasure in suffering... ...seeing self in non-self... Is seeing beauty in the unattractive an inversion, and is that wholesome? It should not be said thus... 426. For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, is their knowledge inverted? Yes. Would an Arahant attain the earth kasina attainment? Yes. If an Arahant would attain the earth kasina attainment, then it should certainly not be said: "For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, their knowledge is inverted." For one who has attained the earth kasina attainment, is their knowledge inverted, and would an Arahant attain the earth kasina attainment? Yes. Is there inversion for an Arahant? It should not be said thus... Is there inversion for an Arahant? Yes. Is there inversion of perception for an Arahant? Is there perversion of consciousness, perversion of views? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is there no perversion of perception, perversion of consciousness, perversion of views for an Arahant? Yes. If there is no perversion of perception, perversion of consciousness, perversion of views for an Arahant, then it should certainly not be said – "There is perversion for an Arahant." 427. Should it not be said – "There is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasina absorption?" Yes.