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B01030501puggalakathā (people debate)

English

kamma-result exists, the result of deeds done exists, when wholesome and unwholesome (deeds) ripen, that very one transmigrates is wrong. 81. Does that very person transmigrate from this world to the other world, from the other world to this world? Yes. Is there anyone, having been a khattiya, becomes a brahmin? Yes. Is that very khattiya that brahmin? It should not be said thus... 82. Is there anyone, having been a khattiya, becomes a vessa, becomes a sudda? Yes. Is that very khattiya that sudda? It should not be said thus... 83. Is there anyone, having been a brahmin, becomes a vessa, becomes a sudda, becomes a khattiya? Yes. Is that very brahmin that khattiya? It should not be said thus. …pe…. 84. Does someone, having been a merchant, become a menial, become a warrior, become a brahmin? Yes. Is that same merchant that brahmin? It should not be said thus…pe…. 85. Does someone, having been a menial, become a warrior, become a brahmin, become a merchant? Yes. Is that same menial that merchant? It should not be said thus…pe…. 86. Does that same individual wander from this world to the other world, from the other world to this world? Yes. Is one with a cut hand still one with a cut hand, is one with a cut foot still one with a cut foot, is one with cut hands and feet still one with cut hands and feet, one with cut ears… one with a cut nose… one with cut ears and nose… one with cut fingers… one with cut nails… one with cut tendons… one with a withered hand… one with a club-foot… a leper… one with boils… one with white leprosy… one with consumption… an epileptic… a camel… an ox… an ass… a pig… is a buffalo still a buffalo? It should not be said thus…pe…. 87. Should it not be said – “that same individual wanders from this world to the other world, from the other world to this world”? Yes. But is not a stream-enterer, having passed away from the human world and reappeared in the divine world, still a stream-enterer there? Yes. If a stream-enterer, having passed away from the human world and reappeared in the divine world, is still a stream-enterer there, then indeed it should be said – “that same individual wanders from this world to the other world, from the other world to this world”. 88. Is it because a stream-enterer, having passed away from the human world and reappeared in the divine world, is still a stream-enterer there, that for this reason that same individual wanders from this world to the other world, from the other world to this world? Yes. Is it because a stream-enterer, having passed away from the human world and reappeared in the divine world, is still a human there? It should not be said thus…pe…. 89. Does that same individual wander from this world to the other world, from the other world to this world? Yes. Does he wander without change, without separation? It should not be said thus…pe…. 90. Does he wander without change, without separation? Yes. One with a cut hand becomes one with a cut-off hand, one with a cut-off foot becomes one with a cut-off foot, one with cut-off hands and feet becomes one with cut-off hands and feet, one with a cut-off ear... one with a cut-off nose... one with cut-off ears and nose... one with cut-off fingers... one with a cut-off jaw... one with cut-off tendons... one with a withered hand... one with a deformed hand... a leper... one with boils... one with white leprosy... one with consumption... an epileptic... a camel... an ox... a donkey... a pig... a buffalo becomes a buffalo? It should not be said so... 91. Does that very same person transmigrate from this world to the other world, and from the other world to this world? Yes. Does he transmigrate with form? It should not be said so... Does he transmigrate with form? Yes. Is that the same life and the same body? It should not be said so... Does he transmigrate with feeling... with perception... with volitional formations... with consciousness? It should not be said so... Does he transmigrate with consciousness? Yes. Is that the same life and the same body? It should not be said so... 92. Does that very same person transmigrate from this world to the other world, and from the other world to this world? Yes. Does he transmigrate without form? It should not be said so... Does he transmigrate without form? Yes. Is that a different life and a different body? It should not be said so... Does he transmigrate without feeling... without perception... without volitional formations... without consciousness? It should not be said so... Does he transmigrate without consciousness? Yes. Is that a different life and a different body? It should not be said so... 93. Does that very same person transmigrate from this world to the other world, and from the other world to this world? Yes. Does form transmigrate? It should not be said so... Does form transmigrate? Yes. Is that the same life and the same body? It should not be said so... Do feeling... perception... volitional formations... consciousness transmigrate? It should not be said so... Does consciousness transmigrate? Yes. Is that the same life and the same body? It should not be said so... 94. Does that very same person transmigrate from this world to the other world, and from the other world to this world? Yes. Does form not transmigrate? It should not be said so... form Does it not transmigrate? Yes. Is the life one thing and the body another? It should not be said thus (etc.). Does feeling (etc.) perception (etc.) mental formations (etc.) consciousness not transmigrate? It should not be said thus (etc.). Does consciousness not transmigrate? Yes. Is the life one thing and the body another? It should not be said thus. (Abbreviated). When the aggregates break up, if that person breaks up; The view of annihilation arises, which is rejected by the Buddha. When the aggregates break up, if that person does not break up; The person becomes eternal, equal to Nibbāna. Inquiry into Transmigration. 12. Inquiry into Designation based on Clinging. 95. Is the designation of a person made by clinging to form? Yes. Is form impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, subject to decay, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change? Yes. Is the person also impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, subject to decay, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change? It should not be said thus (etc.). 96. Is the designation of a person made by clinging to feeling (etc.) by clinging to perception (etc.) by clinging to mental formations (etc.) by clinging to consciousness? Yes. Is consciousness impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, subject to decay, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change? Yes. Is the person also impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, subject to decay, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change? It should not be said thus (etc.). 97. Is the designation of a person made by clinging to form? Yes. Is the designation of a blue person made by clinging to blue form? It should not be said thus (etc.). by clinging to yellow form (etc.) by clinging to red form (etc.) by clinging to white form (etc.) by clinging to visible form (etc.) by clinging to invisible form (etc.) by clinging to impinging form (etc.) by clinging to non-impinging form, is the designation of a non-impinging person made? It should not be said thus (etc.). 98. Is the designation of a person made by clinging to feeling? Yes. By clinging to wholesome feeling... Is a skillful person designated? It should not be said thus... Is a skillful person designated by taking skillful feeling as a basis? Yes. Is skillful feeling fruitful, with results, with desirable results, with pleasing results, with agreeable results, with unmixed results, with pleasant origin, with pleasant results? Yes. Is a skillful person also fruitful, with results, with desirable results, with pleasing results, with agreeable results, with unmixed results, with pleasant origin, with pleasant results? It should not be said thus... 99. Is a person designated by taking feeling as a basis? Yes. Is an unskillful person designated by taking unskillful feeling as a basis? It should not be said thus... Is an unskillful person designated by taking unskillful feeling as a basis? Yes. Is unskillful feeling fruitful, with results, with undesirable results, with unpleasing results, with disagreeable results, with mixed results, with painful origin, with painful results? Yes. Is an unskillful person also fruitful, with results, with undesirable results, with unpleasing results, with disagreeable results, with mixed results, with painful origin, with painful results? It should not be said thus... 100. Is a person designated by taking feeling as a basis? Yes. Is an indeterminate person designated by taking indeterminate feeling as a basis? It should not be said thus... Is an indeterminate person designated by taking indeterminate feeling as a basis? Yes. Is indeterminate feeling impermanent, conditioned, dependently originated, subject to destruction, subject to decay, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change? Yes. Is an indeterminate person also impermanent, conditioned, dependently originated, subject to destruction, subject to decay, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change? It should not be said thus... 101. Is a person designated by taking perception as a basis... by taking formations as a basis... by taking consciousness as a basis? Yes. Is a skillful person designated by taking skillful consciousness as a basis? It should not be said thus... Is a skillful person designated by taking skillful consciousness as a basis? Yes. Is skillful consciousness fruitful, with results, with desirable results, with pleasing results... a delightful fruit, a non-seeping fruit, with pleasant outcome,