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or an unconcentrated mind as an unconcentrated mind, you comprehend; a liberated mind as a liberated mind, you comprehend; or an unliberated mind as an unliberated mind, you comprehend?" "No, friend." "But do you, venerable sirs, thus knowing, thus seeing, recollect your manifold past lives, that is to say – one birth, two births, three births, four births, five births, ten births, twenty births, thirty births, forty births, fifty births, a hundred births, a thousand births, a hundred thousand births, many eons of contraction, many eons of expansion, many eons of contraction and expansion – 'There I was of such a name, of such..." of such a clan, of such a color, of such a diet, experiencing such pleasure and pain, with such a lifespan. Having passed away from there, I arose yonder. There I was of such a name, of such a clan, of such a color, of such a diet, experiencing such pleasure and pain, with such a lifespan. Having passed away from there, I have arisen here.’ Do you thus recollect your manifold past lives, with their details and features?” “No, friend.” “But do you, venerable sirs, thus knowing, thus seeing, with the divine eye, purified and surpassing human sight, see beings passing away and reappearing, inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and understand beings as they fare according to their kamma: ‘These venerable beings, endowed with misconduct in body, endowed with misconduct in speech, endowed with misconduct in mind, revilers of the Noble Ones, holding wrong views, undertaking actions based on wrong views, upon the breakup of the body, after death, have reappeared in a state of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell. Or these venerable beings, endowed with good conduct in body, endowed with good conduct in speech, endowed with good conduct in mind, not revilers of the Noble Ones, holding right views, undertaking actions based on right views, upon the breakup of the body, after death, have reappeared in a good destination, a heavenly world.’ Do you thus, with the divine eye, purified and surpassing human sight, see beings passing away and reappearing, inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and understand beings as they fare according to their kamma?” “No, friend.” “But do you, venerable sirs, thus knowing, thus seeing, abide having touched with the body those peaceful liberations, the formless attainments, which transcend forms?” “No, friend.” “Now, venerable sirs, there is this declaration, and there is the non-attainment of these states. What is this, friend?” “We are liberated by wisdom, friend Susīma.” “I do not understand the meaning of this brief statement of the venerable sirs in detail. Please, venerable sirs, explain to me…” speak so that I may understand the meaning of what these venerable ones have spoken concisely, in detail.” “Whether you understand, friend Susima, or you do not understand, we are liberated by wisdom.” Then the venerable Susima rose from his seat, approached the Blessed One, paid homage to the Blessed One, and sat down to one side. Sitting to one side, the venerable Susima reported to the Blessed One all the conversation he had had with those bhikkhus. “First, Susima, there is knowledge of the stability of the Dhamma, afterwards, knowledge of Nibbāna.” “I do not, venerable sir, understand the meaning of what the Blessed One has spoken concisely, in detail. It would be good, venerable sir, if the Blessed One would speak so that I may understand the meaning of what the Blessed One has spoken concisely, in detail.” “Whether you understand, Susima, or you do not understand, first there is knowledge of the stability of the Dhamma, afterwards, knowledge of Nibbāna.” “What do you think, Susima, is form permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, venerable sir.” “But what is impermanent, is that suffering or happiness?” “Suffering, venerable sir.” “But what is impermanent, suffering, subject to change, is it fit to regard it thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?” “No, venerable sir.” “Is feeling permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, venerable sir.” “But what is impermanent, is that suffering or happiness?” “Suffering, venerable sir.” “But what is impermanent, suffering, subject to change, is it fit to regard it thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?” “No, venerable sir.” “Is perception permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, venerable sir.” ... “Are volitional formations permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, venerable sir.” “But what is impermanent, is that suffering or happiness?” “Suffering, venerable sir.” “But what is impermanent, suffering, subject to change...” Is it proper to regard that: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'? "No, indeed, venerable sir." "Is consciousness permanent or impermanent?" "Impermanent, venerable sir." "But what is impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?" "Suffering, venerable sir." "But what is impermanent, suffering, subject to change, is it proper to regard that: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'?" "No, indeed, venerable sir." "Therefore, Susima, whatever form past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, all form: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'; thus should it be seen as it really is with right wisdom. Whatever feeling past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, all feeling: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'; thus should it be seen as it really is with right wisdom. Whatever perception... Whatever mental formations past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, all mental formations: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'; thus should it be seen as it really is with right wisdom. Whatever consciousness past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, all consciousness: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'; thus should it be seen as it really is with right wisdom. "Seeing thus, Susima, the instructed noble disciple becomes disenchanted with form, becomes disenchanted with feeling, becomes disenchanted with perception, becomes disenchanted with mental formations, becomes disenchanted with consciousness. Being disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is liberated. When liberated, there is the knowledge: 'Liberated.' 'Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what was to be done has been done...' nothing further for this state of being.” “Do you see, Susima, ‘With birth as condition, there is old age and death’?” “Yes, venerable sir.” “Do you see, Susima, ‘With being as condition, there is birth’?” “Yes, venerable sir.” “Do you see, Susima, ‘With clinging as condition, there is being’?” “Yes, venerable sir.” “Do you see, Susima, ‘With craving as condition, there is clinging’?” “Yes, venerable sir.” “With feeling as condition, there is craving… With contact as condition, there is feeling… With the six sense bases as condition, there is contact… With name-and-form as condition, there are the six sense bases… With consciousness as condition, there is name-and-form… With volitional formations as condition, there is consciousness… With ignorance as condition, there are volitional formations— do you see these, Susima?” “Yes, venerable sir.” “Do you see, Susima, ‘With the cessation of birth, there is the cessation of old age and death’?” “Yes, venerable sir.” “Do you see, Susima, ‘With the cessation of being, there is the cessation of birth’?” “Yes, venerable sir.” “With the cessation of clinging, there is the cessation of being… With the cessation of craving, there is the cessation of clinging… With the cessation of feeling, there is the cessation of craving… With the cessation of contact, there is the cessation of feeling… With the cessation of the six sense bases, there is the cessation of contact… With the cessation of name-and-form, there is the cessation of the six sense bases… With the cessation of consciousness, there is the cessation of name-and-form… With the cessation of volitional formations, there is the cessation of consciousness… With the cessation of ignorance, there is the cessation of volitional formations— do you see these, Susima?” “Yes, venerable sir.” “But do you, Susima, knowing and seeing thus, experience various kinds of supernormal power— being one, you become many; being many, you become one; you appear and vanish; you go unimpeded through walls, through ramparts, through mountains, as if through space; you dive in and out of the earth as if in water; you walk on water without sinking as if on land; you travel through the air sitting cross-legged as if a winged bird; you touch and stroke with your hand the moon and sun, so mighty, so powerful; you exercise mastery with your body even up to the Brahma world?” “No, venerable sir.” “But do you, Susima, "Thus knowing, thus seeing, with the divine ear-element, purified, surpassing human, do you hear both sounds, divine and human, those far and near?" "No, venerable sir." "But do you, Susima, thus knowing, thus seeing, comprehend with your mind the minds of other beings, of other persons— do you know a mind with lust as 'a mind with lust'… …or a liberated mind as 'a liberated mind'?" "No, venerable sir." "But do you, Susima, thus knowing, thus seeing, recollect your manifold past lives, that is— one birth… …thus with their aspects and details, do you recollect your manifold past lives?" "No, venerable sir." "But do you, Susima, thus knowing, thus seeing, with the divine eye, purified, surpassing human, see beings passing away… …do you discern beings according to their karma?" "No, venerable sir." "But do you, Susima, thus knowing, thus seeing, dwell having touched with your body those peaceful liberations