English
is aging-and-death both self-made and made by another? or is aging-and-death neither self-made nor made by another, arisen by chance? "No, friend Kotthika, aging-and-death is not self-made, nor made by another, nor both self-made and made by another, nor neither self-made nor made by another, arisen by chance. But rather, aging-and-death has birth as its condition." "Now, friend Sariputta, is birth self-made? is birth made by another? is birth both self-made and made by another? or is birth neither self-made nor made by another, arisen by chance?" "No, friend Kotthika, birth is not self-made, nor made by another, nor both self-made and made by another, nor neither self-made nor made by another, arisen by chance. But rather, birth has existence as its condition." "Now, friend Sariputta, is existence self-made? ... is clinging self-made? ... is craving self-made? ... is feeling self-made? ... is contact self-made? ... is the six sense bases self-made? is name-and-form self-made? is name-and-form made by another? is name-and-form both self-made and made by another? or is name-and-form neither self-made nor made by another, arisen by chance?" "No, friend Kotthika, name-and-form is not self-made, nor made by another, nor both self-made and made by another, nor neither self-made nor made by another, arisen by chance. But rather, name-and-form has consciousness as its condition." "Now, friend Sariputta, is consciousness self-made? is consciousness made by another? is consciousness both self-made and made by another? or is consciousness neither self-made nor made by another, arisen by chance?" "No, friend Kotthika, consciousness is not self-made, nor made by another, nor both self-made and made by another, nor neither self-made nor made by another, arisen by chance. But rather, consciousness has name-and-form as its condition." Just now, friend, we understood the Venerable Sāriputta's teaching thus: 'Friend Koṭṭhika, name-and-form is not self-made, name-and-form is not other-made, name-and-form is not both self-made and other-made, nor is name-and-form unmade by self or other, arising by chance. But rather, with consciousness as condition, there is name-and-form.' And just now, friend, we understood the Venerable Sāriputta's teaching thus: 'Friend Koṭṭhika, consciousness is not self-made, consciousness is not other-made, consciousness is not both self-made and other-made, nor is consciousness unmade by self or other, arising by chance. But rather, with name-and-form as condition, there is consciousness.' "How then, friend Sāriputta, is the meaning of this statement to be understood?" "Then, friend, I will give you a simile. By a simile, some discerning persons understand the meaning of what is said. Just as, friend, two bundles of reeds stand leaning on each other. Even so, friend, with name-and-form as condition, there is consciousness; with consciousness as condition, there is name-and-form; with name-and-form as condition, there are the six sense bases; with the six sense bases as condition, there is contact... ...thus is the origin of this entire mass of suffering. If, friend, one of those bundles of reeds were pulled away, the other would fall; if the other were pulled away, the other would fall. Even so, friend, with the cessation of name-and-form, there is the cessation of consciousness; with the cessation of consciousness, there is the cessation of name-and-form; with the cessation of name-and-form, there is the cessation of the six sense bases; with the cessation of the six sense bases, there is the cessation of contact... ...thus is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering." "Wonderful, friend Sāriputta! Amazing, friend Sāriputta! How well-spoken this is by the Venerable Sāriputta. And we approve of this teaching of the Venerable Sāriputta with these thirty-six points: 'If, friend, a bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma for disenchantment, for dispassion, for cessation of aging-and-death, he is fit to be called a Dhamma-speaker. Aging-and-death If, friend, a bhikkhu is practicing for disenchantment, for dispassion, for cessation, it is fitting to say he is a bhikkhu practicing in accordance with the Dhamma. If, friend, a bhikkhu is liberated from aging-and-death through disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, and non-clinging, it is fitting to say he is a bhikkhu who has attained Nibbāna in this very life. If, friend, a bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma for disenchantment, for dispassion, for cessation concerning birth, concerning becoming, concerning clinging, concerning craving, concerning feeling, concerning contact, concerning the six sense bases, concerning name-and-form, concerning consciousness, concerning volitional formations, concerning ignorance, it is fitting to say he is a Dhamma-speaker. If, friend, a bhikkhu is practicing for disenchantment, for dispassion, for cessation concerning ignorance, it is fitting to say he is a bhikkhu practicing in accordance with the Dhamma. If, friend, a bhikkhu is liberated from ignorance through disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, and non-clinging, it is fitting to say he is a bhikkhu who has attained Nibbāna in this very life. The Seventh. 8. The Discourse at Kosambī At one time the Venerable Musila, the Venerable Paviṭṭha, the Venerable Nārada, and the Venerable Ānanda were staying at Kosambī, in Ghosita's Park. Then the Venerable Paviṭṭha said to the Venerable Musila: "Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from inclination, apart from oral tradition, apart from reasoned conjecture, apart from approval of a view after pondering, does the Venerable Musila have personal knowledge: 'Aging-and-death has birth as its condition'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from inclination, apart from oral tradition, apart from reasoned conjecture, apart from approval of a view after pondering, I know this, I see this: 'Aging-and-death has birth as its condition'." "Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from inclination, apart from oral tradition, apart from reasoned conjecture, apart from approval of a view after pondering, does the Venerable Musila have personal knowledge: 'Birth has becoming as its condition,' etc. …with clinging as condition, becoming… …with craving as condition, clinging… …with feeling as condition, craving… …with contact as condition, feeling… …with six sense bases as condition, contact… …with name-and-form as condition, six sense bases… …with consciousness as condition, name-and-form… …with volitional formations as condition, consciousness… …with ignorance as condition, volitional formations?’’’ ‘‘Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from inclination, apart from tradition, apart from reasoned cogitation, apart from the acceptance of a view after pondering, I know this, I see this: ‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations.’’’ ‘‘Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from inclination, apart from tradition, apart from reasoned cogitation, apart from the acceptance of a view after pondering, does Venerable Musila have personal knowledge: ‘With the cessation of birth, there is the cessation of old age and death’?’’ ‘‘Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from inclination, apart from tradition, apart from reasoned cogitation, apart from the acceptance of a view after pondering, I know this, I see this: ‘With the cessation of birth, there is the cessation of old age and death.’’’ ‘‘Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from inclination, apart from tradition, apart from reasoned cogitation, apart from the acceptance of a view after pondering, does Venerable Musila have personal knowledge: ‘With the cessation of becoming, there is the cessation of birth… …with the cessation of clinging, there is the cessation of becoming… …with the cessation of craving, there is the cessation of clinging… …with the cessation of feeling, there is the cessation of craving… …with the cessation of contact, there is the cessation of feeling… …with the cessation of six sense bases, there is the cessation of contact… …with the cessation of name-and-form, there is the cessation of six sense bases… …with the cessation of consciousness, there is the cessation of name-and-form… …with the cessation of volitional formations, there is the cessation of consciousness… …with the cessation of ignorance, there is the cessation of volitional formations’?’’ ‘‘Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from inclination, apart from tradition, apart from reasoned cogitation, apart from the acceptance of a view after pondering, I know this, I see this: ‘With the cessation of ignorance, there is the cessation of volitional formations.’’’ ‘‘Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from inclination, apart from Apart from hearsay, apart from reasoned speculation, apart from the acceptance of a view, does Venerable Musila have personal knowledge that 'the cessation of becoming is Nibbana'? "Apart from faith, O friend Pavittha, apart from inclination, apart from hearsay, apart from reasoned speculation, apart from the acceptance of a view, I know this, I see this: 'the cessation of becoming is Nibbana'." "Then is Venerable Musila an Arahant, one whose defilements are destroyed?" When this was said, Venerable Musila remained silent. Then Venerable Narada said to Venerable Pavittha: "Good, O friend Pavittha, may I receive this question. Ask me this question. I will explain this question to you." "May Venerable Narada receive this question. I will ask Venerable Narada this question. And may Venerable Narada explain this question to me." "Apart from faith, O friend Narada, apart from inclination, apart from hearsay, apart from reasoned speculation, apart from the acceptance of a view, does Venerable Narada have personal knowledge that 'with birth as condition, there is old age and death'?" "Apart from faith, O friend Pavittha, apart from inclination, apart from hearsay, apart from reasoned speculation, apart from the acceptance of a view, I know this, I see this: