English
When, Poṭṭhapāda, a monk here is a perceiver of his own perception, he, from that to that, gradually touches the peak of perception. For him, standing at the peak of perception, thus... occurs to him: ‘For me, thinking is worse; for me, not thinking is better. If I were to think and construct, these perceptions of mine would cease, and other grosser perceptions would arise; what if I were neither to think nor to construct?’ So he neither thinks nor constructs. For him, not thinking and not constructing, those perceptions cease, and other grosser perceptions do not arise. He touches cessation. Thus, Potthapada, is the attainment of the cessation of perceptions step by step, with full awareness. “What do you think, Potthapada, have you heard of such an attainment of the cessation of perceptions step by step, with full awareness, before this?” “No, venerable sir. Indeed, venerable sir, I understand the Blessed One's teaching thus: ‘When, Potthapada, a monk here is conscious of himself, he touches the summit of perception step by step, from one to another. To him, standing at the summit of perception, it occurs thus: “For me, thinking is worse; for me, not thinking is better. If I were to think and construct, these perceptions of mine would cease, and other grosser perceptions would arise; what if I were neither to think nor to construct?” So he neither thinks nor constructs. For him, not thinking and not constructing, those perceptions cease, and other grosser perceptions do not arise. He touches cessation. Thus, Potthapada, is the attainment of the cessation of perceptions step by step, with full awareness.’” “So it is, Potthapada.” “Venerable sir, does the Blessed One declare only one summit of perception, or does he declare various summits of perception?” “Potthapada, I declare one summit of perception, and I declare various summits of perception.” “How then, venerable sir, does the Blessed One declare one summit of perception, and also declare various summits of perception?” “In whatever way, Potthapada, one touches cessation, In this way, in this way, I declare the summit of perception. Thus, indeed, Poṭṭhapāda, I declare even one summit of perception, and I declare diverse summits of perception. 416. ‘‘Does perception, indeed, venerable sir, arise first, then knowledge? Or does knowledge arise first, then perception? Or do perception and knowledge arise simultaneously, without prior or later?’’ ‘‘Perception, indeed, Poṭṭhapāda, arises first, then knowledge. And with the arising of perception, there is the arising of knowledge. He thus understands: ‘Indeed, by this condition, knowledge arose in me.’ By this method, indeed, Poṭṭhapāda, it should be understood – how perception arises first, then knowledge, and with the arising of perception, there is the arising of knowledge.’’ Discourse on Perception and Self 417. ‘‘Is perception, indeed, venerable sir, the self of a person? Or is perception one thing, and the self another?’’ ‘‘But what self, Poṭṭhapāda, do you acknowledge?’’ ‘‘Indeed, venerable sir, I acknowledge a gross self, material, composed of the four great elements, feeding on physical food.’’ ‘‘If, indeed, Poṭṭhapāda, your self were gross, material, composed of the four great elements, feeding on physical food, even so, indeed, Poṭṭhapāda, perception would be one thing, and the self another. Therefore, by this method, Poṭṭhapāda, it should be understood how perception would be one thing, and the self another. This gross self, Poṭṭhapāda, remains, material, composed of the four great elements, feeding on physical food, yet for this person, other perceptions arise, and other perceptions cease. By this method, indeed, Poṭṭhapāda, it should be understood how perception would be one thing, and the self another.’’ 418. ‘‘Indeed, venerable sir, I acknowledge a mind-made self, complete with all its parts and limbs, with unimpaired faculties.’’ ‘‘If, indeed, Poṭṭhapāda, your self were mind-made, complete with all its parts and limbs, with unimpaired faculties, even so, indeed, Poṭṭhapāda, perception would be... another self will exist. This, Poṭṭhapāda, is to be understood by this method: that the perception will be one thing, the self another. That mind-made self, Poṭṭhapāda, with all its limbs and parts, with unmaimed faculties, remains, yet other perceptions arise for this person, and other perceptions cease. By this method too, Poṭṭhapāda, is it to be understood: that the perception will be one thing, the self another.” “I hold, venerable sir, that the self is formless, made of perception.” “If, Poṭṭhapāda, your self were formless, made of perception, even so, Poṭṭhapāda, the perception would be one thing, the self another. This, Poṭṭhapāda, is to be understood by this method: that the perception will be one thing, the self another. That formless self, Poṭṭhapāda, made of perception, remains, yet other perceptions arise for this person, and other perceptions cease. By this method too, Poṭṭhapāda, is it to be understood: that the perception will be one thing, the self another.” “Is it possible for me, venerable sir, to know: ‘perception is the self of a person’ or ‘perception is one thing, the self another’?” “It is difficult for you, Poṭṭhapāda, with another view, another acceptance, another preference, another practice, another teacher, to know: ‘perception is the self of a person’ or ‘perception is one thing, the self another’.” “If, venerable sir, it is difficult for me, with another view, another acceptance, another preference, another practice, another teacher, to know: ‘perception is the self of a person’ or ‘perception is one thing, the self another’; then, venerable sir, is the world eternal, is this alone true, all else false?” “That, Poṭṭhapāda, has not been declared by me: ‘the world is eternal, this alone is true, all else false’.” “Then, venerable sir, is the world not eternal, is this alone true, all else false?” “That too, Poṭṭhapāda, has not been declared by me: ‘the world is not eternal, the world is eternal, this alone is true, anything else is foolishness.” “But, venerable sir, is it that ‘the world is eternal… (and so on)… ‘the world is not eternal… ‘the soul and the body are the same… ‘the soul is one thing, the body another… ‘the Tathāgata exists after death… ‘the Tathāgata does not exist after death… ‘the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death… ‘the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death, this alone is true, anything else is foolishness’?” “This too, Poṭṭhapāda, has been undeclared by me – ‘the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death, this alone is true, anything else is foolishness’.” “Why then, venerable sir, has this not been declared by the Blessed One?” “This, Poṭṭhapāda, is not connected with the goal, not connected with the Dhamma, not fundamental to the holy life, it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to tranquility, to direct knowledge, to full enlightenment, to Nibbāna. Therefore, this has not been declared by me.” “But what then, venerable sir, has been declared by the Blessed One?” “This is suffering, Poṭṭhapāda, has been declared by me. This is the origin of suffering, Poṭṭhapāda, has been declared by me. This is the cessation of suffering, Poṭṭhapāda, has been declared by me. This is the path leading to the cessation of suffering, Poṭṭhapāda, has been declared by me.” “Why then, venerable sir, has this been declared by the Blessed One?” “This, Poṭṭhapāda, is connected with the goal, this is connected with the Dhamma, this is fundamental to the holy life, this leads to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to tranquility, to direct knowledge, to full enlightenment, to Nibbāna; therefore, this has been declared by me.” “So it is, Blessed One, so it is, Fortunate One. Now, venerable sir, the Blessed One may do as he deems fit.” Then the Blessed One rose from his seat and departed. 421. Then, not long after the Blessed One had departed, those wanderers assailed the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda from all sides with a torrent of words, saying: “This venerable Poṭṭhapāda, whatever ascetic Gotama speaks, that he just…” he approved, saying, ‘So it is, Blessed One! So it is, Fortunate One!’ But we do not know any doctrine taught by the ascetic Gotama as definitively stated: ‘The world is eternal,’ or ‘The world is not eternal,’ or ‘The world is finite,’ or ‘The world is infinite,’ or ‘The soul is the same as the body,’ or ‘The soul is one thing, the body another,’ or ‘The Tathāgata exists after death,’ or ‘The Tathāgata does not exist after death,’ or ‘The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,’ or ‘The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.’” When this was said, Potthapāda the wanderer said to those wanderers: “I too, sirs, do not know any doctrine taught by the ascetic Gotama as definitively stated: ‘The world is eternal,’ or ‘The world is not eternal’… and so on… ‘The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.’ But the ascetic Gotama teaches a course of practice that is real, true, and actual, a stability of Dhamma, a regularity of Dhamma. When one teaches a course of practice that is real, true, and actual, a stability of Dhamma, a regularity of Dhamma, how could an intelligent person like me not approve of the ascetic Gotama’s well-spoken words as well-spoken?” The Story of Citta, Hatthasāriputta, and Potthapāda 422. Then, after two or three days, Citta, Hatthasāriputta, and Potthapāda the wanderer approached the Blessed One. Having approached, Citta Hatthasāriputta bowed to the Blessed One and sat down to one side. Potthapāda the wanderer, however, exchanged greetings with the Blessed One. Having exchanged courteous and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, Potthapāda the wanderer said to the Blessed One: “At that time, venerable sir, those wanderers, soon after the Blessed One had departed,