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but indeed, sirs, this self is not utterly annihilated by this much. Indeed, sirs, there is another self, having entirely surpassed the dimension of nothingness, reaching the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, thinking "this is peaceful, this is sublime." That you do not know, you do not see. That I know, I see. Indeed, sirs, when that self, upon the body's breaking up, is cut off, perishes, does not exist after death, by this much, indeed, sirs, this self is utterly annihilated.’ Thus some proclaim the cutting off, perishing, and annihilation of an existing being. By these, monks, those recluses and brahmins who are annihilationists proclaim the annihilation of an existing being They declare destruction, annihilation, by seven grounds. Whatever recluses or brahmins, monks, are annihilationists, declaring the cutting off, destruction, annihilation of an existing being, all of them declare it by these same seven grounds... ...by which they would rightly speak the true praise of the Tathāgata. The Doctrine of Nibbāna in this very life 93. There are, monks, some recluses and brahmins who are proponents of Nibbāna in this very life. They declare the highest Nibbāna in this very life for an existing being by five grounds. And those venerable recluses and brahmins, relying on what, starting from what, are proponents of Nibbāna in this very life? They declare the highest Nibbāna in this very life for an existing being by five grounds? 94. Here, monks, some recluse or brahmin holds such a doctrine, holds such a view: ‘When, good sirs, this self is endowed, fully equipped, and indulges in the five strands of sensual pleasure, to that extent, good sirs, this self has attained the highest Nibbāna in this very life.’ Thus, some declare the highest Nibbāna in this very life for an existing being. 95. Another says to him thus: ‘Indeed, good sir, that self exists which you speak of; I do not say it does not exist. But, good sir, this self has not attained the highest Nibbāna in this very life to that extent. For what reason? For sensual pleasures, good sir, are impermanent, suffering, subject to change. From their change and alteration arise sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair. When, good sir, this self, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, enters and dwells in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by thought and examination, born of seclusion, with rapture and pleasure, to that extent, good sir, this self has attained the highest Nibbāna in this very life.’ Thus, some declare the highest Nibbāna in this very life for an existing being. 96. Another says to him thus: ‘Indeed, good sir, that self exists which you speak of; I do not say it does not exist. But, good sir, this self has not attained the highest Nibbāna in this very life to that extent. . For what reason? Whatever is there thought and pondered, by this it is called coarse. But when, sirs, this self, with the calming of thought and pondering, with inner tranquility, with the mind's one-pointedness, without thought, without pondering, with the joy and pleasure born of concentration, abides having attained the second jhāna, by this much, sirs, this self has attained the supreme visible Nibbāna. Thus some declare the supreme visible Nibbāna for an existing being. 97. ‘‘Another says this to him: ‘Indeed, sirs, that self exists, which you speak of, I do not say it does not exist; but, sirs, this self has not attained the supreme visible Nibbāna by this much. For what reason? Whatever is there joy-bound, the mind's elation, by this it is called coarse. But when, sirs, this self, with the fading of joy, abides equanimous, mindful and clearly comprehending, and experiences pleasure with the body, which the noble ones declare: “Equanimous, mindful, dwelling in pleasure,” abides having attained the third jhāna, by this much, sirs, this self has attained the supreme visible Nibbāna.’ Thus some declare the supreme visible Nibbāna for an existing being. 98. ‘‘Another says this to him: ‘Indeed, sirs, that self exists, which you speak of, I do not say it does not exist; but, sirs, this self has not attained the supreme visible Nibbāna by this much. For what reason? Whatever is there the mind's attention to pleasure, by this it is called coarse. But when, sirs, this self, with the abandoning of pleasure and the abandoning of pain, and with the prior disappearance of gladness and sadness, abides having attained the fourth jhāna, which is neither painful nor pleasant, with purity of mindfulness due to equanimity, by this much, sirs, this self has attained the supreme visible Nibbāna.’ Thus some declare the supreme visible Nibbāna for an existing being. 99. ‘‘By these, monks, those recluses and brahmins d Those who advocate for Nibbāna in this very life declare the supreme Nibbāna in this very life for a conscious being by five things. Whatever recluses or brahmins, monks, who advocate for Nibbāna in this very life declare the supreme Nibbāna in this very life for a conscious being, all of them do so by these five things... ...by which they would rightly speak the true praise of the Tathāgata. 100. By these, monks, those recluses and brahmins who speculate about the future, who hold views about the future, declare various kinds of speculative doctrines concerning the future by forty-four things. Whatever recluses or brahmins, monks, who speculate about the future, who hold views about the future, declare various kinds of speculative doctrines concerning the future, all of them do so by these forty-four things... ...by which they would rightly speak the true praise of the Tathāgata. 101. By these, monks, those recluses and brahmins who speculate about the past, and who speculate about the future, who speculate about both past and future, who hold views about both past and future, declare various kinds of speculative doctrines concerning both past and future by sixty-two things. 102. Whatever recluses or brahmins, monks, who speculate about the past, or who speculate about the future, or who speculate about both past and future, who hold views about both past and future, declare various kinds of speculative doctrines concerning both past and future, all of them do so by these sixty-two things, or by one of them; there is nothing outside of this. 103. This, monks, the Tathāgata knows: 'These standpoints of view, thus grasped, thus clung to, lead to such a destination, such a future state.' And this the Tathāgata knows, and he knows what is beyond that, and that knowing he does not cling to. And for him, not clinging, Nibbāna is known personally. The origin of feelings, and their passing away, their gratification, their danger, their escape, as they really are. Having known what has come to be, the Tathāgata, monks, is liberated without clinging. 104. "These, monks, are those teachings, profound, hard to see, hard to understand, peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of mere logic, subtle, to be experienced by the wise, which the Tathāgata, having directly known and realized himself, proclaims. By which, speaking rightly, one would speak the true praise of the Tathāgata. The Section on Trembling and Struggling 105. "Therein, monks, those ascetics and brahmins who are eternalists, who proclaim the self and the world as eternal in four ways— that too, for those venerable ascetics and brahmins, is an experience of not knowing, not seeing, of those caught by craving, just trembling and struggling. 106. "Therein, monks, those ascetics and brahmins who are partial eternalists and partial non-eternalists, who proclaim the self and the world as partly eternal and partly non-eternal in four ways— that too, for those venerable ascetics and brahmins, is an experience of not knowing, not seeing, of those caught by craving, just trembling and struggling. 107. "Therein, monks, those ascetics and brahmins who speculate about the finitude or infinitude of the world, who proclaim the world as finite or infinite in four ways— that too, for those venerable ascetics and brahmins, is an experience of not knowing, not seeing, of those caught by craving, just trembling and struggling. 108. "Therein, monks, those ascetics and brahmins who are 'eel-wrigglers', being asked questions here and there, fall into verbal equivocation, 'eel-wriggling', in four ways— that too, for those venerable ascetics and brahmins, is an experience of not knowing, not seeing, of those caught by craving, just trembling and struggling. 109. "Therein, monks, those ascetics and brahmins who are 'fortuitous originists', who proclaim the self and the world as arisen by chance in two ways— that too, for those venerable ascetics and brahmins, is an experience of not knowing, not seeing, of those caught by craving, just trembling and struggling. 110. "Therein, monks, those ascetics and brahmins who speculate about the past, of past ends... who speculate about the past, concerning the past, declare various kinds of speculative views in eighteen ways. Even that, for those venerable recluses and brahmins, who do not know, who do not see, is a feeling born of craving, just a writhing and struggling. 111. “Therein, monks, those recluses and brahmins who are upholders of a conscious self after death, conscious-self theorists, who declare a conscious self after death in sixteen ways, even that, for those venerable recluses and brahmins, who do not know, who do not see, is a feeling born of craving, just a writhing and struggling. 112. “Therein, monks, those recluses and brahmins who are upholders of an unconscious self after death, unconscious-self theorists, who declare an unconscious self after death in eight ways, even that, for those venerable recluses and brahmins, who do not know, who do not see, is a feeling born of craving, just a writhing and struggling. 113. “Therein, monks, those recluses and brahmins