English
English version: Question: 'Although the lamp and flame do not stay for a moment, because there is no cause for staying, there is the law of cessation (niè fǎ, the law that causes things to perish) and the non-law of cessation (niè fēi fǎ, the law that does not cause things to perish). Relying on that law of cessation, the lamp flame is extinguished, so it should be extinguished by relying on causes and conditions.' Answer: 'This meaning is not correct. Why? Because without a substantial law, how can it act as a cause of cessation? Moreover, the cause of arising (shēng yīn, the cause of arising things), the law of cessation (niè fǎ, the law that causes things to perish), and the non-law (fēi fǎ, non-dharma) do not stay for a moment. The momentary mind (chà nà xīn, a thought in an extremely short time) in the momentary mind ultimately cannot act as a cause of arising (shēng yīn, the cause of arising things) or a cause of cessation (miè yīn, the cause of cessation). Thus, all conditioned dharmas (yǒu wéi zhū fǎ, all things formed by the combination of causes and conditions) should be known not to cease from a cause.' Furthermore, if relying on fire, etc., can act as a cause of cessation for firewood, etc., then the cause of arising (shēng yīn, the cause of arising things) is the cause of cessation (miè yīn, the cause of cessation). What does this clarify? Relying on what kind of flame does what kind of color arise, that flame can act as a cause of maturation and excellence, and a cause of the cessation of maturation and excellence. Therefore, the cause of arising (shēng yīn, the cause of arising things) is the cause of cessation (miè yīn, the cause of cessation), and there is no other cause. But this meaning is not so. How can this one dharma cause a dharma to arise and cause a dharma to cease? Moreover, in different flames, such differences in causes are false discriminations, like the fact that lye, bitter wine, snow, sun, earth, water, grains, and rice can produce different colors of maturation, etc. How can one discriminate in those places?' Question: 'That's not right. Why? Because when water is boiled by fire, the water dries up because of the fire, and the fire is the cause of cessation.' Answer: 'As explained earlier, how can one know that the water ceases because of the fire and not by natural cessation?' Question: 'If so, what does the fire do?' Answer: 'The fire element (huǒ jiè, the element of fire) increases. Relying on that power of fire, the power of water gradually weakens, until later the continuous entity of water is cut off and no longer arises. This is what the fire does, not what the fire extinguishes. Therefore, all conditioned dharmas (yǒu wéi zhī fǎ, all things formed by the combination of causes and conditions) naturally cease, without cessation by causes and conditions, because that law of cessation (niè fǎ, the law that causes things to perish) does not stay for a moment, so it ceases immediately. Thus, it is accomplished that all dharmas do not stay for a moment, do not stay for a moment, so this dharma does not go elsewhere.' Question: 'I still see this dharma in other places. If the dharma does not go, how can it be seen in other places and recognized in other places?' Answer: 'Like the flame of grass, therefore it does not go. Therefore, the demeanor of the body is called bodily action (shēn zuò fǎ, bodily actions). This meaning...' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chinese
已成，非谓异身别有实法。如一方生色名为长色，依彼长色更见余色名为短色，依四方故见四方色，依圆物故名为圆色，如是长短方圆高下诸色。譬如挑火，一厢直去不断不绝相续而见名为长火，周匝四厢不断不绝名为圆火，随种种转见种种火，如是离火更无别有实形相法。若离火外有形相法，应为二根所伺，眼根见长、身根触短，以一色入非二根见，如触法长短等。如是色中应知，触法唯心，非是现根可捉可知，如见火色触中生念知，如嗅华香色中生念，此法应如是，依余法念余法而无一触法，于威仪中实有依触法得余法，是故无实身威仪法。” 问曰：“此义不然。何以故？若于闇夜远见土墙等色，或长或短此应是实。” 答曰：“但见色，不了虚妄分别长短等色，如不异蚁子等见行见围，此亦如是，异身威仪更无实法，唯身威仪名为作法，不离身外别有作法。向说心思惟者，心中分别我如是如是作，能生身口业名为心业，若身所作名为身业，若口所作名为口业，不异三业别有实法。” 问曰：“异身口业实有别法。何以故？以有三种无垢色增长不作业道等故。此明何义？以如来修多罗中说色摄三种。何者为三？一者、有色可见可碍；二者、有色不可见可碍；三者、有色不可见不可碍。无垢色 现代汉语译本：已经形成的事物，并不是说在不同的个体之外还存在真实的法。例如，从一个方向产生的颜色称为‘长色’，依靠那个长色再看到其他的颜色，就称为‘短色’。依靠四个方向，所以看到四方的颜色；依靠圆形物体，所以称为圆形颜色。像这样，长短、方圆、高低等各种颜色，就像拨弄火焰一样，从一个方向笔直地延伸，不断绝地相续而显现，称为‘长火’；周围四面不断绝地相续，称为‘圆火’。随着种种的转动，看到种种的火焰。像这样，离开火焰，就没有另外真实的形状相状的法。如果离开火焰之外还有形状相状的法，应该被两种根所感知：眼根看到长，身根触到短。因为一种颜色进入，不是两种根都能见到的，就像触法中的长短等。像这样，在色法中应当知道，触法唯是心所生，不是现在的根所能把握和知晓的，就像看到火焰的颜色，触觉中产生念头而知晓；就像嗅到花香，色法中产生念头。此法应当像这样，依靠其他的法来念其他的法，而没有一个触法。在威仪中，实际上是依靠触法而得到其他的法，所以没有真实的身威仪法。 问：‘这个道理不对。为什么呢？如果在黑暗的夜晚，远远地看到土墙等的颜色，或者长或者短，这应该是真实的。’ 答：‘只是看到了颜色，没有真正明白虚妄分别的长短等颜色，就像不一样的蚂蚁等，看到行走和包围。这个也是这样，不同的身体的威仪，更没有真实的法，只有身体的威仪，称为作法，不离开身体之外，另外有作法。前面所说的心思惟，是心中分别我这样这样地做，能产生身口业，称为心业；如果身体所做，称为身业；如果口所说，称为口业。不异于这三种业，另外有真实的法。’ 问：‘不同的身口业，确实有不同的法。为什么呢？因为有三种无垢色增长，不作业道等。这说明什么意义呢？因为如来在修多罗（sutra，经）中说，色包含三种。哪三种呢？第一种，有色可见可碍；第二种，有色不可见可碍；第三种，有色不可见不可碍。无垢色
English
English version: What has already been formed does not mean that there are real dharmas existing separately from different entities. For example, a color arising from one direction is called 'long color'; relying on that long color to see other colors is called 'short color'. Relying on the four directions, one sees the colors of the four directions; relying on a round object, it is called round color. Like this, various colors such as long, short, square, round, high, and low, are like poking at a fire. Extending straight from one side, continuously and without interruption, it is seen as 'long fire'; surrounding all four sides continuously and without interruption, it is called 'round fire'. Following various movements, one sees various fires. Like this, apart from the fire, there are no other real forms and appearances of dharmas. If there were forms and appearances of dharmas apart from the fire, they should be perceived by two senses: the eye sense sees the length, and the body sense touches the shortness. Because one color enters, it is not seen by two senses, like the length and shortness in touch dharmas. Like this, in color dharmas, it should be known that touch dharmas are only mind-created, not something that the present senses can grasp and know, just like seeing the color of fire, and a thought arises in the sense of touch and one knows; just like smelling the fragrance of a flower, and a thought arises in the color dharma. This dharma should be like this, relying on other dharmas to think of other dharmas, and there is no single touch dharma. In deportment, one actually relies on touch dharmas to obtain other dharmas, therefore there is no real bodily deportment dharma. Question: 'This reasoning is not correct. Why? If in the dark night, one sees the color of an earthen wall from afar, whether long or short, this should be real.' Answer: 'One only sees the color, without truly understanding the falsely discriminated long and short colors, just like different ants seeing walking and surrounding. This is also like that, different bodies' deportment has no real dharma, only the body's deportment is called action, and there is no action apart from the body. The aforementioned mental contemplation is the mind discriminating that 'I will do this and that', which can generate body and speech karma, called mind karma; if it is what the body does, it is called body karma; if it is what the mouth says, it is called speech karma. There is no real dharma different from these three karmas.' Question: 'Different body and speech karmas do have different dharmas. Why? Because there are three kinds of undefiled colors that increase, not the path of action, etc. What does this mean? Because the Tathagata (Tathāgata, Thus Come One) says in the sutra (sutra, discourse) that color includes three kinds. What are the three? First, color that is visible and obstructive; second, color that is invisible and obstructive; third, color that is invisible and non-obstructive. Undefiled color --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chinese
者，谓无漏色。何者无漏色？无漏色者谓无漏法。何者无漏法？谓于过去未来现在色中不生瞋爱，乃至识中不生瞋爱，以是义故名无漏法。若如是者，离无作法何处有色不可见不可碍是无漏？故知应有无作法离身口意业增长者。如来修多罗中说：‘有信者善男子、善女人修行七种功德，行住睡寤等日夜常生功德增长功德。’若离身口业更无无作，云何异心法而得增长？是故当知，离身口业有无作法。又自不作业使他作业，若无无作此云何成？ “又复非但使人作业即得名为成就业道，以彼业未成复更有过。虽作业未有实体成就，以如来经中说：‘诸比丘！外入十一入不摄，不可见不可碍。’而不说非色。此为何义故如是说？以如来见法入中摄无作色故如是说。 “又复作难，若无无作法亦应无八圣道，以定中无正语、正业及以正命，当知决定有无作法。又复有难，若无无作法，离波罗提木叉亦应无无作戒，以受戒竟后即无故，以在睡眠及颠狂等诸失心者，亦名比丘、比丘尼故，当知决定有无作法。复有修多罗中如来说言离破戒桥梁，若无无作法，云何说言离破戒桥梁？是故当知有无作法。” 答曰：“此难极繁，虽有种种众多言说而义皆不然。何以故？汝向虽引如来修多罗中说色三种，而汝不解如 现代汉语译本：问：什么是无漏色？答：所谓的无漏色，指的是无漏法。问：什么是无漏法？答：指的是对于过去、未来、现在的色（rupa，物质现象）中不生起嗔恨和爱欲，乃至对于识（vijnana，意识）中也不生起嗔恨和爱欲，因为这个缘故，称为无漏法。如果这样说，那么离开无作法（avyakrta-dharma，无记法），在哪里还有不可见、不可阻碍的无漏色呢？所以应当知道有无作法，它独立于身口意业的增长。如来的修多罗（sutra，经）中说：‘有信心的善男子、善女人修行七种功德，行住坐卧等日夜常常生起功德，增长功德。’如果离开身口业就没有无作，怎么能通过不同的心法而得到增长呢？因此应当知道，离开身口业是有无作法的。而且自己不做业而使他人作业，如果没有无作，这又如何成立呢？ “而且不仅仅是使人作业就可以称为成就业道，因为在那个业没有完成之前还会有过失。即使作业还没有实体成就，如来的经中也说：‘诸位比丘！外入十一入不摄，不可见不可碍。’但并没有说它不是色。这是什么意思呢？因为如来见到法入中摄有无作色，所以这样说。 “而且又有人提出疑问，如果没有无作法，也就不应该有八圣道（arya-astangika-marga，八正道），因为在禅定中没有正语、正业以及正命，应当知道一定有无作法。又有人提出疑问，如果没有无作法，离开波罗提木叉（pratimoksa，戒律）也就不应该有无作戒，因为在受戒之后就立即没有了（戒体显现），因为在睡眠以及精神错乱等失去心智的人，也仍然被称为比丘（bhiksu，比丘）、比丘尼（bhiksuni，比丘尼），所以应当知道一定有无作法。又有修多罗中如来说，远离破戒的桥梁，如果没有无作法，怎么能说远离破戒的桥梁呢？所以应当知道有无作法。” 回答说：“这些诘难非常繁琐，虽然有种种众多言说，但义理都不正确。为什么呢？你刚才虽然引用如来的修多罗中说色有三种，但是你不理解如来所说的含义。”