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Question: Then, friend, how was King Ajātasattu, son of Videha, questioned in return by the Blessed One, and how did he inform the Blessed One? Answer: "Do you recall, great king, having asked this question of other ascetics and brahmins?" "I do recall, venerable sir, having asked other ascetics and brahmins." "How then, great king, did they explain it to you? If it is not troublesome for you, please speak." "It is not troublesome for me, venerable sir, where the Blessed One was seated..." It is time, venerable one, Therefore, great king, speak. Thus, indeed, venerable sir, At that time, the Blessed One Questioned King Ajātasattu of Magadha, Son of Videhi. Thus, indeed, venerable sir, It was then reported to the Blessed One by him. Pūraṇa Kassapa's View Question: And how, friend, Was the questioning and answering With Pūraṇa Kassapa? Answer: At one time, venerable sir, King Ajātasattu of Magadha, Son of Videhi, Approached Pūraṇa Kassapa. Having approached, He asked Pūraṇa Kassapa About the immediate fruits of recluseship. Then, venerable sir, Pūraṇa Kassapa, When asked by King Ajātasattu of Magadha, Son of Videhi, About the immediate fruits of recluseship, Declared non-action, saying: "Indeed, great king, For one who acts, For one who causes to act, For one who cuts, For one who causes to cut, For one who cooks, For one who causes to cook, For one who grieves, For one who causes to grieve (etc.), No evil is done by acting." Thus, indeed, venerable sir, Was the questioning and answering With Pūraṇa Kassapa. Pūraṇa Kassapa's Doctrine Indeed, friend, Pūraṇa Kassapa's doctrine Is without splendor, Unprofitable, Detestable, Exceedingly fearful. Those who would think his words Are worth listening to, Worth believing, For them, that would be For long-term harm and suffering. With this much, Today we will conclude The questioning and answering. Makkhali Gosāla's View Question: Friend, on the previous day, I asked some points Pertaining to the introduction Of the Sāmaññaphala Sutta, And they were well answered by you. But today, I will ask, Starting from Makkhali Gosāla's doctrine, As it comes in due order. But how, friend, Did Makkhali Gosāla, When asked by King Ajātasattu of Magadha, Son of Videhi, About the immediate fruits of recluseship, Declare it? Answer: At one time, venerable sir, King Ajātasattu of Magadha, Son of Videhi, Approached Makkhali Gosāla. Having approached, He asked Makkhali Gosāla About the immediate fruits of recluseship. Then, venerable sir, Makkhali Gosāla spoke to King Ajātasattu son of Videhī, the Magadhan king, thus: “There is no cause, great king, there is no condition for the defilement of beings. Without cause, without condition, beings are defiled. There is no cause, great king, there is no condition for the purification of beings. Without cause, without condition, beings are purified. (peyyāla) Eighty-four hundred thousand great eons are what fools and wise alike will run through, will wander through, and make an end of suffering. There is no such thing as: ‘By this virtue, or by this vow, or by this ascetic practice, or by this holy life, I will bring to ripeness karma that is unripe, or I will make an end of karma that is ripe, experiencing it again and again.’ There is no such thing. Pleasure and pain are measured, the cycle of existence is finite. There is no decrease or increase, there is no exaltation or debasement. Just as a ball of string, when thrown, unrolls itself until it runs out, even so, fools and wise alike will run through, will wander through, and make an end of suffering.” Thus, venerable sir, when asked by King Ajātasattu, son of Videhī, the Magadhan king, about the fruit of recluseship visible here and now, Makkhali Gosāla declared purification through transmigration. The Doctrine of Makkhali Gosāla This doctrine too, friends, is without splendor, unconnected with welfare, repugnant, and exceedingly terrifying. For those who would consider his words worth hearing, worth believing, it would be for their long-term harm and suffering. The Doctrine of Ajita Kesakambala Question: Now I will ask another question: How did Ajita Kesakambala, friends, when asked by King Ajātasattu, son of Videhī, the Magadhan king, about the fruit of recluseship visible here and now, declare it? Answer: On one occasion, venerable sir, King Ajātasattu, son of Videhī, the Magadhan king, approached Ajita Kesakambala. Having approached, he asked Ajita Kesakambala about the fruit of recluseship visible here and now. Then, venerable sir, Ajita Kesakambala spoke to King Ajātasattu, son of Videhī, the Magadhan king, thus: “There is no gift, great king, there is no There is no offering, there is no sacrifice, there is no fruit or ripening of good and bad deeds, there is no this world, there is no other world, there is no mother, there is no father, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there are no recluses and brahmins in the world who are rightly gone, rightly practiced, who, having themselves realized and experienced this world and the other world, proclaim them. (And so forth) Fools and wise alike, at the breaking up of the body, are cut off, destroyed. Thus, venerable sir, when asked about the immediate fruit of recluseship by King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, Ajita Kesakambala declared annihilation. Ajita Kesakambala This too, friends, is indeed without splendor, unbeneficial, repugnant, and exceedingly terrifying. For those who would think his words are to be heard and believed, that would be for their long-term harm and suffering. The doctrine of Pakudha Kaccāyana Question: Now I ask another question: How, friends, did Pakudha Kaccāyana, when asked about the immediate fruit of recluseship by King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, declare it? Answer: At one time, venerable sir, King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, approached Pakudha Kaccāyana. Having approached, he asked Pakudha Kaccāyana about the immediate fruit of recluseship. Then, venerable sir, Pakudha Kaccāyana said to King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī: “There are, great king, these seven bodies, unmade, unmaking, uncreated, uncreating, barren, standing firm like a pillar. They do not move, they do not change, they do not harm one another, they are not capable of causing happiness or suffering or both to one another. Which are the seven? The body of earth, the body of water, the body of fire, the body of air, happiness, suffering, and life as the seventh. These seven bodies are unmade, unmaking, uncreated, uncreating, barren, standing firm like a pillar. They do not move, they do not change, they do not harm one another, they are not capable of causing happiness or suffering or both to one another. or for pleasure and pain. There is no killer or slayer, no hearer or proclaimer, no knower or enlightener. Even he who cuts off a head with a sharp sword, no one deprives anyone of life. The sword merely passes through the interval between seven bodies." Thus, Venerable Sir, when Pakudha Kaccāyana was asked by King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, about the fruit of recluseship, he explained something other than what was asked. The Doctrine of Pakudha Kaccāyana This doctrine too, friends, like the previous doctrine, is without splendor, unprofitable, repugnant, and exceedingly dreadful. The Doctrine of Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta Question: Furthermore, I ask, how did Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta, friends, answer when asked by King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, about the visible fruit of recluseship? Answer: On one occasion, Venerable Sir, King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, approached Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta. Having approached, he asked Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta about the visible fruit of recluseship. Then Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta said to King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, "Here, great king, a Nigaṇṭha is restrained by the fourfold restraint. And how, great king, is a Nigaṇṭha restrained by the fourfold restraint? Here, great king, a Nigaṇṭha is entirely protected from all water, entirely yoked to all water, entirely purified by all water, entirely pervaded by all water. Thus, great king, is a Nigaṇṭha restrained by the fourfold restraint. When, great king, a Nigaṇṭha is thus restrained by the fourfold restraint, this, great king, is called a Nigaṇṭha who has gone to the self, who has yoked the self, who has established the self." Thus, Venerable Sir, when Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta was asked by King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, about the visible fruit of recluseship, he explained the fourfold restraint. The Doctrine of the Nigaṇṭha Is there any doctrine in this teaching, friends, that is in accordance with the teaching? Because of its impure view, this doctrine too is repugnant, just as Indeed, food mixed with excrement is to be despised, to be avoided from afar, just like a cup of drink mixed with poison. The Doctrine of the Evasive Question – I ask yet another question: How did Sañcaya Belaṭṭhaputta answer when asked about the visible fruits of recluseship? Answer – On one occasion, venerable sir, King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī, went to Sañcaya Belaṭṭhaputta. Having approached, he said to Sañcaya Belaṭṭhaputta: “Just as, good Sañcaya, there are these various crafts, such as elephant-riders, horse-riders… (and so on)… Is it possible, good Sañcaya, to declare in the same way a visible fruit of recluseship in this very life?” When this was said, venerable sir, Sañcaya Belaṭṭhaputta said to King Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of Videhī: “If you ask me, ‘Is there another world?’ If it were for me that ‘there is another world,’ I would declare to you that ‘there is another world.’ But it is not so for me, nor is it thus for me, nor is it otherwise for me, nor is it not for me, nor is it not not for me… (and so on)… If you ask me, ‘Does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?’ If it were for me that ‘the Tathāgata neither exists nor not exists after death,’