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Are there two unconditioned things? Yes. Are there two protections... or intervals? It should not be said thus... The attainment of the path of stream-entry is unconditioned... the attainment of the fruit of stream-entry is unconditioned... the attainment of the path of arahantship is unconditioned... the attainment of the fruit of arahantship is unconditioned... Is Nibbāna unconditioned? Yes. Are there nine unconditioned things? It should not be said thus... Are there nine unconditioned things? Yes. Are there nine protections... or intervals? It should not be said thus... Should it not be said – the attainment is unconditioned? Yes. Is attainment form... feeling... perception... mental formations... consciousness? It should not be said thus. Therefore, the attainment is unconditioned. The discourse on attainment is concluded. Is the suchness of all phenomena unconditioned? Yes. Is Nibbāna... the deathless? It should not be said thus... Is the suchness of all phenomena unconditioned, is Nibbāna unconditioned? Yes. Are there two unconditioned things? It should not be said thus... Are there two unconditioned things? Yes. Are there two protections... refuges... is there an interval? It should not be said thus... 842. The form of form, is not the form of form unconditioned? Yes. Nibbāna... is it deathless? It should not be said thus... The form of form, is not the form of form unconditioned, Nibbāna is unconditioned? Yes. Are there two unconditioned things? It should not be said thus... Are there two unconditioned things? Yes. Are there two refuges... is there an interval? It should not be said thus... The feeling of feeling, is not the feeling of feeling unconditioned? Yes. The perception of perception, is not the perception of perception unconditioned? Yes. The formations of formations, are not the formations of formations unconditioned? Yes. The consciousness of consciousness, is not the consciousness of consciousness unconditioned? Yes. Nibbāna... is it deathless? It should not be said thus... The form of form, is not the form of form unconditioned... the consciousness of consciousness, is not the consciousness of consciousness unconditioned, Nibbāna is unconditioned? Yes. Are there six unconditioned things? It should not be said thus... Are there six unconditioned things? Yes. Are there six refuges... is there an interval? It should not be said thus... 843. Should it not be said – "The suchness of all phenomena is unconditioned"? Yes. Is the suchness of all phenomena form... feeling... perception... formations... consciousness? It should not be said thus. Therefore, the suchness of all phenomena is unconditioned. The discourse on Suchness is finished. 19. Chapter Nineteen (191) 6. Discourse on Wholesome Things 844. Is the Nibbāna-element wholesome? Yes. Is it with an object, is there a turning towards it... a resolve? It should not be said thus... Is it not without an object, is there no turning towards it... no resolve? Yes. If it is without an object, if there is no turning towards it... no resolve, then indeed it should not be said – "The Nibbāna-element is wholesome". 845. Non-greed is wholesome, with an object, is there a turning towards it... a resolve? Yes. Is the Nibbāna-element wholesome, with an object, is there a turning towards it... a resolve? It should not be said thus... Non-hatred is wholesome... non-delusion is wholesome... faith... energy... mindfulness... concentration... wisdom is wholesome, with an object, is there a turning towards it... Is there turning... or aspiration? Yes. Is the Nibbāna-element wholesome, with an object? Is there turning... or aspiration in it? It should not be said so... Is the Nibbāna-element wholesome, without an object? Is there no turning... or aspiration in it? Yes. Is non-greed wholesome, without an object? Is there no turning... or aspiration in it? It should not be said so... Is the Nibbāna-element wholesome, without an object? Is there no turning... or aspiration in it? Yes. Is non-hatred wholesome... non-delusion wholesome... faith... energy... mindfulness... concentration... wisdom wholesome, without an object? Is there no turning... or aspiration in it? It should not be said so... 846. Should it not be said: "The Nibbāna-element is wholesome"? Yes. Is not the Nibbāna-element blameless? Yes. If the Nibbāna-element is blameless, then indeed it should be said: "The Nibbāna-element is wholesome." The discourse on wholesome states is concluded. 19. The Nineteenth Chapter (192) 7. Discourse on Absolute Certainty 847. Is there absolute certainty for an ordinary person? Yes. Is a matricide absolutely certain? A parricide... A slayer of an Arahant... One who causes blood to flow... One who causes a schism in the Sangha, absolutely certain? It should not be said so... 848. Is there absolute certainty for an ordinary person? Yes. Would doubt arise in a person who is absolutely certain? Yes. If doubt would arise in a person who is absolutely certain, then indeed it should not be said: "There is absolute certainty for an ordinary person." Would doubt not arise in a person who is absolutely certain? Yes. Is it abandoned? It should not be said so... Is it abandoned? Yes. By the path of stream-entry? It should not be said so... By the path of once-returning... By the path of non-returning... By the path of Arahantship? It should not be said so... By which path? By the unwholesome path. Is the unwholesome path leading out, leading to destruction, leading to enlightenment, free from taints... undefiled? It should not be said so... Is not the unwholesome path not leading out...? Is it defiling? Yes. If the unwholesome path is not leading out... ...is defiling, then it should not be said – "The doubt of a person utterly fixed is abandoned by the unwholesome path." 849. Would the view of annihilation arise in a person fixed in the view of eternalism? Yes. If the view of annihilation would arise in a person fixed in the view of eternalism, then it should not be said – "There is absolute certainty for an ordinary person." Would the view of annihilation not arise in a person fixed in the view of eternalism? Yes. Is it abandoned? It should not be said thus... ...Is it abandoned? Yes. By the stream-entry path? It should not be said thus... ...by the once-returner path... ...by the non-returner path... ...by the arahant path? It should not be said thus... By which path? By the unwholesome path. The unwholesome path... ...then it should not be said – "The view of annihilation of a person fixed in the view of eternalism is abandoned by the unwholesome path." 850. Would the view of eternalism arise in a person fixed in the view of annihilation? Yes. If the view of eternalism would arise in a person fixed in the view of annihilation, then it should not be said – "There is absolute certainty for an ordinary person." Would the view of eternalism not arise in a person fixed in the view of annihilation? Yes. Is it abandoned? It should not be said thus... ...Is it abandoned? Yes. By the stream-entry path? It should not be said thus... ...by the once-returner path... ...by the non-returner path... ...by the arahant path? It should not be said thus... By which path? By the unwholesome path. The unwholesome path... ...then it should not be said – "The view of eternalism of a person fixed in the view of annihilation is abandoned by the unwholesome path." 851. Should it not be said – "There is absolute certainty for an ordinary person"? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One – "Here, monks, a certain person is endowed with utterly dark (qualities)..." with wholesome states, such a person, O bhikkhus, once submerged, remains submerged indeed! Is there such a discourse? Yes, there is. Then is there absolute certainty for the ordinary person? 852. It was said by the Blessed One: "Here, O bhikkhus, a certain person is endowed with exclusively dark, unwholesome states; once submerged, he remains submerged indeed!" And because of that reason, is there absolute certainty for the ordinary person? Yes, there is. It was said by the Blessed One: "Here, O bhikkhus, a certain person emerges and submerges!" Is there such a discourse? Yes, there is. Does he emerge and submerge all the time? It should not be said so... ... It was said by the Blessed One: "Here, O bhikkhus, a certain person is endowed with exclusively dark, unwholesome states; once submerged, he remains submerged indeed!" And because of that reason, is there absolute certainty for the ordinary person? Yes, there is. It was said by the Blessed One: "Here, O bhikkhus, a certain person emerges and stands, emerges and sees, observes, emerges and crosses over, emerges and reaches firm ground!" Is there such a discourse? Yes, there is. Does he emerge and reach firm ground all the time? It should not be said so... ... The discussion on absolute certainty is finished. 19. The Nineteenth Chapter (193) 8. Discussion on Faculties 853. Is there no mundane faculty of faith? Yes, there is. Is there no mundane faith? It should not be said so... ... Is there no mundane faculty of energy? ... faculty of mindfulness? ... faculty of concentration? ... faculty of wisdom? Yes, there is. Is there no mundane wisdom? It should not be said so... ... Is there mundane faith? Yes, there is. Is there a mundane faculty of faith? It should not be said so... ... Is there mundane energy? ... mindfulness? ... concentration? ... wisdom? Yes, there is. Is there a mundane faculty of wisdom? It should not be said so... ... Is there mundane... No, is there a worldly faculty of mind? Yes. Is there worldly faith, is there a worldly faculty of faith? It should not be said thus... Is there a worldly mind, is there a worldly faculty of mind? Yes. Is there worldly wisdom, is there a worldly faculty of wisdom? It should not be said thus.... Is there worldly joy, is there a worldly faculty of joy...?