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Is not concentration endowed with mind-consciousness? Yes. If concentration is endowed with mind-consciousness, then it should not be said: "One who has attained hears sound." Concentration is endowed with mind-consciousness, does one endowed with ear-consciousness hear sound? Yes. If concentration is endowed with mind-consciousness, and one endowed with ear-consciousness hears sound, then it should not be said: "One who has attained hears sound." Concentration is endowed with mind-consciousness, does one endowed with ear-consciousness hear sound? Yes. Is there a combination of two contacts...? (etc.) ...of two consciousnesses? It should not be said so... (etc.) 824. Should it not be said: "One who has attained hears sound"? Yes. Has not sound been declared by the Blessed One as a thorn to the first jhana? Yes. If sound has been declared by the Blessed One as a thorn to the first jhana, then it should be said: "One who has attained hears sound." 825. Sound has been declared by the Blessed One as a thorn to the first jhana, does one who has attained hear sound? Yes. Initial application and sustained application have been declared by the Blessed One as a thorn to the second jhana, does he have initial application and sustained application? It should not be said so... (etc.) Sound has been declared by the Blessed One as a thorn to the first jhana, does one who has attained hear sound? Yes. Joy has been declared as a thorn to the third jhana... (etc.) ...in-breathing and out-breathing have been declared as a thorn to the fourth jhana... Perception of form has been declared as a thorn to one who has attained the sphere of infinite space... ...the sphere of infinite consciousness... For one who has attained the base of infinite space, the perception of infinite space is a thorn... For one who has attained the base of nothingness, the perception of infinite consciousness is a thorn... For one who has attained the base of neither perception nor non-perception, the perception of the base of nothingness is a thorn... For one who has attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling are said by the Blessed One to be a thorn. Are there for him perception and feeling? It should not be said thus... The discourse on "One hears sound" is concluded. 18. The Eighteenth Chapter (185) 9. The discourse on "One sees form with the eye" 826. Does one see form with the eye? Yes. Does one see form with form? It should not be said thus... Does one see form with form? Yes. Does one discern form with form? It should not be said thus... Does one discern form with form? Yes. Is form mind-consciousness? It should not be said thus... Does one see form with the eye? Yes. Is there a turning of the eye... ...an intention? It should not be said thus... Indeed, is there no turning of the eye... ...no intention? Yes. If there is no turning of the eye... ...no intention, then indeed it should not be said – "One sees form with the eye." Does one hear sound with the ear...? ...Does one smell odor with the nose...? ...Does one taste flavor with the tongue...? ...Does one touch tangibles with the body? Yes. Does one touch form with form? It should not be said thus... Does one touch form with form? Yes. Does one discern form with form? It should not be said thus... Does one discern form with form? Yes. Is form mind-consciousness? It should not be said thus... Does one touch tangibles with the body? Yes. Is there a turning of the body... ...an intention? It should not be said thus... Indeed, is there no turning of the body... ...no intention? Yes. If there is no turning of the body... ...no intention, then indeed it should not be said – "One touches tangibles with the body."... 827. Should it not be said – "One sees form with the eye"... ..."One touches tangibles with the body"? Yes. Indeed, is it not? It was said by the Blessed One: "Here, monks, a bhikkhu sees a form with the eye... and so on... touches a tangible object with the body!" Is there such a discourse? Yes. Therefore, he sees a form with the eye... and so on... he touches a tangible object with the body. The discussion on "sees a form with the eye" is finished. The Eighteenth Chapter. Its summary: The Buddha, the Blessed One, stood in the human world, by the Buddha, the Blessed One, the Dhamma was taught, there is no compassion of the Buddha, the Blessed One, the Buddha, the Blessed One's excrement and urine exceedingly surpasses other fragrant things, by one noble path the four fruits of recluseship are realized, from jhāna to jhāna one passes, there is an interval between jhānas, one who has attained absorption hears sound, sees a form with the eye, touches a tangible object with the body.