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13. Thirteenth Chapter (126) 1. Discourse on the Eon-Endurer 654. Does one who endures an eon endure an eon? Yes. And does the eon endure and a Buddha arise in the world? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Does one who endures an eon endure an eon? Yes. And does the eon endure and the Sangha split? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Does one who endures an eon endure an eon? Yes. And does the eon endure and the eon-endurer perform an eon-enduring deed? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Does one who endures an eon endure an eon? Yes. And does the eon endure and the eon-enduring person die? It should not be said thus… (etc.) 655. Does one who endures an eon endure an eon? Yes. Would he endure a past eon, would he endure a future eon? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Does one who endures an eon endure an eon? Yes. Would he endure two eons… three eons… four eons? It should not be said thus… (etc.) 656. Does one who endures an eon endure an eon? Yes. When the eon is burning, where does the eon-endurer go? He goes to another world-element. Does he go having died, or does he go through the air? He goes having died. Is the eon-enduring deed of later ripening? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Does he go through the air? Yes. Is the eon-endurer endowed with psychic power? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Is the eon-endurer endowed with psychic power? Yes. Has the eon-endurer developed the basis of psychic power of desire, developed the basis of psychic power of effort, developed the basis of psychic power of consciousness, developed the basis of psychic power of investigation? It should not be said thus… (etc.) 657. Should it not be said: “One who endures an eon endures an eon”? Yes. But has it not been said by the Blessed One: Destined for the lower realms, for hell, an eon-endurer, a splitter of the Sangha; delighting in factions, unrighteous, he destroys peace and security; having split the united Sangha he burns in hell for an eon. Is there such a Sutta? Yes. Then the one who stands for an eon should stand for an eon. The discussion on the one who stands for an eon is finished. 13. Thirteenth Chapter (127) 2. Discussion on the Acquisition of Wholesome States 658. Does the one who stands for an eon not acquire a wholesome mind? Yes. Does the one who stands for an eon give a gift? Yes. If the one who stands for an eon gives a gift, then it should not be said – "The one who stands for an eon does not acquire a wholesome mind." Does the one who stands for an eon not acquire a wholesome mind? Yes. Does the one who stands for an eon give robes...? ...give almsfood...? ...give lodgings...? ...give medicines and requisites for the sick...? ...give solid food...? ...give soft food...? ...give drinks...? ...worship a shrine...? ...place a garland on a shrine...? ...place perfume...? ...place ointment...? ...circumambulate a shrine clockwise? Yes. If the one who stands for an eon circumambulates a shrine clockwise, then it should not be said – "The one who stands for an eon does not acquire a wholesome mind." 659. Does the one who stands for an eon acquire a wholesome mind? Yes. Does he acquire a wholesome mind arising from that? Yes. Does he acquire a wholesome mind of the form realm...? ...of the formless realm...? ...or a supramundane wholesome mind? It should not be said so. The discussion on the acquisition of wholesome states is finished. 13. Thirteenth Chapter (128) 3. Discussion on the Person Engaged in Immediate Retribution 660. Does a person engaged in immediate retribution enter the fixed course of rightness? Yes. Does he enter both the fixed course of wrongness and the fixed course of rightness? It should not be said so. Does a person engaged in immediate retribution enter the fixed course of rightness? Yes. But is not that deed, when done, productive of remorse, generating regret? Yes. If that deed, when done, is productive of remorse, generating regret, then it should not be said – "a person engaged in immediate retribution..." A person who has committed an anantarika-kamma might enter the fixed course of rightness? 661. A person who has committed an anantarika-kamma is unable to enter the fixed course of rightness? Yes. Mother deprived of life… Father deprived of life… Arahant deprived of life… With malicious intent, the Tathāgata's blood was shed… The Sangha was split? It should not be said thus… … A person who has committed an anantarika-kamma, having retracted that action, having removed remorse, having removed regret, is unable to enter the fixed course of rightness? Yes. Mother deprived of life… Father deprived of life… … The Sangha was split? It should not be said thus… … A person who has committed an anantarika-kamma, having retracted that action, having removed remorse, having removed regret, is unable to enter the fixed course of rightness? Yes. Is it not that that action is retracted, remorse is removed, regret is removed? Yes. If indeed that action is retracted, remorse is removed, regret is removed, then surely it should not be said: "A person who has committed an anantarika-kamma, having retracted that action, having removed remorse, having removed regret, is unable to enter the fixed course of rightness." 662. A person who has committed an anantarika-kamma might enter the fixed course of rightness? Yes. Was not that action committed? Yes. If indeed that action was committed, then surely it should not be said: "A person who has committed an anantarika-kamma might enter the fixed course of rightness." The discourse on the one who has committed an anantarika-kamma is concluded. 13. Thirteenth Chapter (129) 4. Discourse on the fixed course of the fixed one 663. The fixed one enters the fixed course? Yes. The one fixed in wrongness enters the fixed course of rightness, the one fixed in rightness enters the fixed course of wrongness? It should not be said thus… … The fixed one enters the fixed course? Yes. Having formerly developed the path, afterwards one enters the fixed course? It should not be said thus… … formerly s Having developed the stream-entry path, does one then enter the certainty of stream-entry? It should not be said so… … Having developed the once-return path… … the non-return path… … the arahant path, does one then enter the certainty of arahantship? It should not be said so… Having developed mindfulness… … right effort… … bases of psychic power… … faculties… … powers… … factors of enlightenment, does one then enter certainty? It should not be said so… 664. Should it not be said, “One who is certain enters certainty”? Yes. Does a capable bodhisatta not fully comprehend the Dhamma in that birth? It should not be said so. Then, one who is certain enters certainty. The discourse on the certainty of the certain one is finished. 13. The Thirteenth Chapter (130) 5. Discourse on the Hindered One 665. Does one who is hindered abandon hindrances? Yes. Does one who is impassioned abandon passion? Does one who is hateful abandon hatred? Does one who is deluded abandon delusion? Does one who is defiled abandon defilements? It should not be said so… … Does one abandon passion with passion? Does one abandon hatred with hatred? Does one abandon delusion with delusion? Does one abandon defilements with defilements? It should not be said so… Is passion associated with consciousness, and the path associated with consciousness? Yes. Is there a convergence of two contacts… … of two consciousnesses? It should not be said so… … Is passion unwholesome, and the path wholesome? Yes. Do wholesome and unwholesome, blameworthy and blameless, inferior and superior, dark and bright, counterpart phenomena come into direct presence? It should not be said so… 666. Do wholesome and unwholesome, blameworthy and blameless, inferior and superior, dark and bright, counterpart phenomena come into direct presence? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One: “These four, monks, are extremely far apart! Which four? The sky, monks, and the earth – this is the first extremely far apart… … Therefore, the Dhamma of the good is far from the bad”? Is there such a discourse? Yes. Then, it should not be said, “wholesome and unwholesome… … come into direct presence.” Does one who is hindered abandon hindrances? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One – "He, with his mind thus concentrated, purified, cleansed, without blemish, rid of defilements, pliant, workable, steady, attained to imperturbability, directs his mind to the knowledge of the destruction of the taints!" Is there such a Sutta? Yes. Therefore, it should not be said – "One who is covered abandons hindrances"... etc. 667. Should it not be said – "One who is covered abandons hindrances"? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One – "For him who knows thus, who sees thus, his mind is liberated from the taint of sensual desire... etc. ... his mind is liberated from the taint of ignorance!" Is there such a Sutta? Yes. Therefore, one who is covered abandons hindrances. The discourse on "covered" is finished. 13. The Thirteenth Chapter (131) 6. The discourse on "being face-to-face" 668. Does one who is face-to-face abandon fetters? Yes. Does one who is impassioned abandon passion, one who is hateful abandon hatred, one who is deluded abandon delusion, one who is defiled abandon defilements? It should not be said thus... etc. Does one abandon passion with passion, hatred with hatred, delusion with delusion, defilements with defilements? It should not be said thus... etc. Is passion associated with the mind, and the path associated with the mind? Yes. Is there a conjunction of two contacts... etc. ... of two minds? It should not be said thus... etc. Is passion unwholesome, and the path wholesome? Yes. Do wholesome and unwholesome, blameworthy and blameless, inferior and superior, dark and bright counterparts of phenomena come face-to-face? It should not be said thus... etc. 669. Do wholesome and unwholesome... etc. ...