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"They wish for, they praise, they murmur, they offer oblations; (Puṇṇaka, said the Blessed One) They murmur for desires, dependent on gain; those engaged in sacrifice, stained by the lust for becoming, I say they did not cross birth and old age." 1053. "If they, engaged in sacrifice, did not cross (thus spoke the venerable Puṇṇaka) by sacrifices, birth and old age, dear sir, then who indeed, in the world of gods and men, has crossed birth and old age, dear sir? I ask you, Blessed One, tell me that." 1054. "Having understood in the world the high and the low, (Puṇṇaka, said the Blessed One) for whom there is no wavering anywhere in the world, tranquil, smokeless, without distress, without longing, I say he has crossed birth and old age." The third set of questions of Puṇṇaka the student is concluded. 4. The Questions of Mettagū the Student 1055. "I ask you, Blessed One, tell me that, (thus spoke the venerable Mettagū) I consider you a knower of the goal, one whose self is developed; From where indeed do these sufferings arise, whatever various kinds there are in the world?" 1056. "Indeed, you ask me about the origin of suffering, (Mettagū, said the Blessed One) I will tell you that." as I understand it. From clinging as a cause arise sufferings, whatever various kinds there are in the world. 1057. "Whoever, being ignorant, makes clinging, that foolish one repeatedly comes to suffering; Therefore, understanding, one should not make clinging, seeing the origin and arising of suffering." 1058. "That which we asked you, you have declared to us; We ask you another, please tell us this: How do the wise cross the flood, birth, old age, sorrow, and lamentation? Explain this to me well, O Sage, for indeed this Dhamma is known to you." 1059. "I will declare to you the Dhamma, (said the Blessed One to Mettagū) which is not based on tradition in this very life; Knowing which, one, mindful, practicing, may cross over attachment in the world." 1060. "And I rejoice in that, O Great Seer, the supreme Dhamma; Knowing which, one, mindful, practicing, may cross over attachment in the world." 1061. "Whatever you fully comprehend, (said the Blessed One to Mettagū) above, below, across, and in the middle; Having abandoned delight and attachment in these, consciousness does not stand in existence. 1062. "A bhikkhu, thus dwelling, mindful, diligent, practicing, having abandoned possessiveness; Knowing, he would here abandon birth, old age, sorrow, and lamentation, and suffering." 1063. "I rejoice in these words of the Great Seer, well-declared by Gotama, without clinging; Indeed, the Blessed One has abandoned suffering, for indeed this Dhamma is known to you. 1064. "And they too would surely abandon suffering, whom you, O Sage, would instruct, being earnest; I bow to you, O Nāga, having come together, may the Blessed One instruct me, being earnest." 1065. "That brahmin whom one would know as a knower of the Vedas, having nothing, unattached to sensual existence; Indeed, he has crossed this flood, crossed over to the other shore, unblemished, without longing. 1066. "And that knowing man, a knower of the Vedas, here, having abandoned this attachment to existence and non-existence; He, free from craving, without affliction, without hope, he has crossed birth and old age, I declare." The Fourth Question of the Youth Mettagū is finished. 5. The Question of the Youth Dhotaka 1067. "I ask "I desire that, Blessed One, tell me that," (thus spoke the venerable Dhotaka) "I long for your speech, great sage; Having heard your voice, I would learn my own Nibbāna." 1068. "Then strive diligently," (Dhotaka, said the Blessed One) "here, astute and mindful; Having heard the voice from here, you would learn your own Nibbāna." 1069. "I see in the world of gods and humans, a Brahmin without possessions, striving; I bow to you, All-Seeing One, release me, Sakka, from doubts." 1070. "I cannot release, Dhotaka, any doubter in the world; But knowing the supreme Dhamma, thus you will cross this flood." 1071. "Instruct me, Brahma, out of compassion, the Dhamma of solitude which I may understand; So that I, like space, unhindered, being peaceful here, may wander unattached." 1072. "I shall proclaim to you peace," (Dhotaka, said the Blessed One) "in the seen Dhamma, without tradition; Which, having known, wandering mindfully, you will cross attachment in the world." 1073. "And I rejoice in that, great sage, in supreme peace; Which, having known, wandering mindfully, I will cross attachment in the world." 1074. "Whatever you fully comprehend," (Dhotaka, said the Blessed One) "Above, below, across, and in the middle; Knowing this as attachment in the world, do not make craving for becoming or non-becoming." The Fifth Question of Dhotaka the student is finished. 6. The Question of Upasīva the student 1075. "Alone, Sakka, I cannot bear to cross the great flood," (thus spoke the venerable Upasīva) "Without support, I cannot cross; Tell me a support, All-Seeing One, relying on which I may cross this flood." 1076. "Looking to nothingness, mindful," (Upasīva, said the Blessed One) "Relying on 'there is nothing,' cross the flood; Having abandoned sensual pleasures, abstaining from talks, see the destruction of craving, day and night." 1077. "He who is dispassionate towards all sensual pleasures," (thus spoke the venerable Upasīva) o) Having resorted to nothingness, having abandoned conceit; Released in the supreme release of perception, would he remain there, not following on? 1078. “He who is dispassionate towards all desires, (Upasīva, said the Blessed One) Having resorted to nothingness, having abandoned conceit; Released in the supreme release of perception, he would remain there, not following on.” 1079. “If he would remain there, not following on, the all-seeing one, for a multitude of years; Would he there become cool, released, or would the consciousness of such a one depart?” 1080. “As a flame, struck by the force of the wind, (Upasīva, said the Blessed One) Goes to its end, does not come to be reckoned; So a sage, released from name-and-body, goes to his end, does not come to be reckoned.” 1081. “Has he gone to his end, or does he not exist, or is he eternally free from illness; Explain this to me well, O sage, for this Dhamma is known to you.” 1082. “For one who has gone to his end, there is no measure, (Upasīva, said the Blessed One) That by which one might speak of him, that is not for him; When all phenomena are uprooted, all paths of speech are also uprooted.” The sixth question of Upasīva the student is finished. 7. The Question of Nanda the Student 1083. “There are sages in the world, (thus said the venerable Nanda) People say, how is this so? Do they call him a sage who is endowed with knowledge, or one who is endowed with life?” 1084. “Not by views, not by learning, not by knowledge, (not by virtue and vows) Do the skilled here, Nanda, call one a sage; Those who, having cast off weapons, are without affliction, without longing, Who wander, them I call sages.” 1085. “Whatever ascetics and brahmins there are, (thus said the venerable Nanda) They speak of purity by what is seen and heard; They speak of purity by virtue and vows, they speak of purity in many ways; Have they, O Blessed One, striving there, crossed over birth and old age, O good sir? Pu I ask you, Blessed One, tell me that. 1086. Whosoever these recluses and brahmins are, (Nanda, said the Blessed One) Who speak of purity through what is seen and heard; Who speak of purity through virtue and vows, who speak of purity in many ways; Even if they strive there, I say they have not crossed birth and old age. 1087. Whosoever these recluses and brahmins are, (thus spoke Venerable Nanda) Who speak of purity through what is seen and heard; Who speak of purity through virtue and vows, who speak of purity in many ways; If, O Sage, you say they have not crossed the flood, Then who indeed in the world of gods and humans Has crossed birth and old age, dear sir? I ask you, Blessed One, tell me that. 1088. I do not say all recluses and brahmins, (Nanda, said the Blessed One) Are covered by birth and old age; But those who here abandon all that is seen, heard, or cognized, and also virtue and vows; Abandon all manifold forms, having fully understood craving, are without defilements; Those indeed are the people who have crossed the flood, I say. 1089. I rejoice in this word of the Great Seer, well-proclaimed by Gotama, free from clinging; Those who here abandon all that is seen, heard, or cognized, and also virtue and vows; Abandon all manifold forms, having fully understood craving, are without defilements; I too say they have crossed the flood. The seventh question of Nanda the student is finished. 8. The Question of Hemaka the Student 1090. Those who formerly explained to me, (thus spoke Venerable Hemaka) Beyond Gotama's teaching; It was thus, it will be thus – all that is mere hearsay; All that is a proliferation of speculation; I did not delight in that. 1091. But you, O Sage, teach me the Dhamma, the destruction of craving; Knowing which, one may fare mindfully, and cross attachment in the world. 1092. Here, in what is seen, heard, cognized, and known, in pleasant forms, O Hemaka; The removal of desire and lust is the deathless state of Nibbana. 1093. Those who, knowing this, are mindful, and are fully cooled in this very life; They are always peaceful, having crossed attachment in the world. The eighth question of Hemaka the student is finished. In whom desires do not dwell, (thus spoke the venerable Todeyya) In whom craving is not found; And who has crossed over doubt, What kind of liberation is his? In whom desires do not dwell, (Todeyya, said the Blessed One) In whom craving is not found; And who has crossed over doubt, His liberation is none other. Is he without hope, or hoping?