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not made by another, but arisen by chance— that too is conditioned by contact. ‘In this regard, Ānanda, those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who declare suffering to be made by oneself— indeed, apart from contact... they would experience it, this is not possible. And those... and those... and those ascetics and brahmins, karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be not self-made, not other-made, but arisen by chance, they would indeed experience it apart from contact, this is not possible. Once, Ananda, I was staying right here in Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, at the Squirrels' Feeding Place. Then, Ananda, in the morning, having dressed, and taking my bowl and robe, I entered Rājagaha for alms. It occurred to me, Ananda: 'It's too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha. What if I were to go to the park of the other sect's wanderers?'" Then, Ananda, I went to the park of the other sect's wanderers; having gone, I exchanged greetings with those wanderers of other sects. Having concluded the courteous and memorable talk, I sat down to one side. As I sat to one side, Ananda, those wanderers of other sects said this to me: 'Friend Gotama, there are some ascetics and brahmins, karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be self-made. But, friend Gotama, there are some ascetics and brahmins, karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be other-made. Friend Gotama, there are some ascetics and brahmins, karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be both self-made and other-made. But, friend Gotama, there are some ascetics and brahmins, karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be not self-made, not other-made, but arisen by chance. What does the venerable Gotama assert here? What does he proclaim? How, by explaining, would we be speakers of what the venerable Gotama says, and not misrepresent the venerable Gotama with what is not true, and explain the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, and no co-dharmic point of contention would lead to a blameworthy position?'" When this was said, Ananda, I said to those wanderers of other sects: 'Suffering, friends, is dependently arisen... It was said by me. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. Saying thus, he would be one who speaks what I have said, and would not misrepresent me with what is not true, and would explain the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, and no co-dhamma follower, following the argument, would come to a blameworthy position. "Therein, friend, those recluses and brahmins who are karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be self-made, that too is conditioned by contact. And those... And those recluses and brahmins who are karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be not self-made, not made by another, arisen by chance, that too is conditioned by contact. "Therein, friend, those recluses and brahmins who are karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be self-made, it is not possible that they would experience it apart from contact. And those... And those recluses and brahmins who are karma-theorists, who declare suffering to be not self-made, not made by another, arisen by chance, it is not possible that they would experience it apart from contact." "Wonderful, venerable sir! Amazing, venerable sir! That the entire meaning should be expressed by a single word. Might it be, venerable sir, that this same meaning, when spoken in detail, would be profound and appear profound?" "Then, Ananda, let that very thing occur to you." "If, venerable sir, they were to ask me thus – 'Aging-and-death, friend Ananda, what is its source, what is its origin, what is its birth, what is its cause?' Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would explain thus – 'Aging-and-death, friend, has birth as its source, birth as its origin, birth as its birth, birth as its cause.' Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would explain thus. "If, venerable sir, they were to ask me thus – 'Birth, friend Ananda, what is its source, what is its origin, what is its birth, what is its cause?' Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would explain thus – 'Birth, friend, has existence as its source, existence as its origin, existence as its birth, existence as its cause.' Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would explain thus. "If, venerable sir, they were to ask me thus "Existence, friend Ānanda, what is its source? What is its origin? What is its birth? What is its cause?" Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would explain thus: "Existence, friend, has clinging as its source, clinging as its origin, clinging as its birth, clinging as its cause." Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would explain thus. "If, venerable sir, they were to ask me thus: 'Clinging, friend... (and so on)... Craving, friend... (and so on)... Feeling, friend... (and so on)...' If, venerable sir, they were to ask me thus: 'Contact, friend Ānanda, what is its source? What is its origin? What is its birth? What is its cause?'" Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would explain thus: "Contact, friend, has the six sense-bases as its source, the six sense-bases as its origin, the six sense-bases as its birth, the six sense-bases as its cause." "Through the complete fading away and cessation of the six contact-bases, friend, there is the cessation of contact; with the cessation of contact, there is the cessation of feeling; with the cessation of feeling, there is the cessation of craving; with the cessation of craving, there is the cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, there is the cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, there is the cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Thus is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering." Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would explain thus. The Fourth. 5. The Bhūmija Sutta 25. Dwelling at Sāvatthī. Then, in the evening, Venerable Bhūmija, having risen from seclusion, approached Venerable Sāriputta; having approached, he exchanged greetings with Venerable Sāriputta. Having concluded the courteous and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, Venerable Bhūmija said this to Venerable Sāriputta: "There are, friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins who are kamma-theorists, who declare pleasure and pain to be self-made. But there are, friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins who are kamma-theorists, who declare pleasure and pain to be made by another. There are, friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins who are kamma-theorists, who declare pleasure and pain to be both self-made and made by another. There are p “Friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, declare pleasure and pain to be not self-made, not made by another, but arisen by chance. Here, for us, friend Sāriputta, what does the Blessed One declare? What does he explain? How, by explaining, would we be speaking in accordance with what the Blessed One has said, and not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is untrue, and explain the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, and no fellow recluse, following the Dhamma, would find a cause for reproach?” “Friend, pleasure and pain are declared by the Blessed One to be dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. Speaking thus, one would be speaking in accordance with what the Blessed One has said, and not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is untrue, and explain the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, and no fellow recluse, following the Dhamma, would find a cause for reproach. “Friend, those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who declare pleasure and pain to be self-made, that too is dependent on contact. And those... and those... and those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who declare pleasure and pain to be not self-made, not made by another, but arisen by chance, that too is dependent on contact. “Friend, those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who declare pleasure and pain to be self-made, that they would experience it apart from contact — that is not possible. And those... and those... and those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who declare pleasure and pain to be not self-made, not made by another, but arisen by chance, that they would experience it apart from contact — that is not possible.” Then Venerable Ānanda heard this conversation between Venerable Sāriputta and Venerable Bhūmija. Then Venerable Ānanda approached the Blessed One; having approached, he paid homage to the Blessed One and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, Venerable Ānanda reported to the Blessed One the entire conversation that had taken place between Venerable Sāriputta and Venerable Bhūmija. “Good, Indeed, good, Ananda, just as Sāriputta would rightly explain it. Dependent on conditions, Ananda, happiness and suffering have been declared by me. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. Saying this, he would be one who speaks what has been said by me, and would not misrepresent me with what is not true, and would explain the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, and no fellow Dhamma-follower would come to a blameworthy position in the course of the debate. Therein, Ananda, those recluses and brahmins who are karma-theorists, who declare happiness and suffering to be self-made, that too is dependent on contact. And those who declare it to be made by another, that too is dependent on contact. And those who declare it to be both self-made and made by another, that too is dependent on contact. And those recluses and brahmins who are karma-theorists, who declare happiness and suffering to be neither self-made nor made by another, arising by chance, that too is dependent on contact. Therein, Ananda, those recluses and brahmins who are karma-theorists, who declare happiness and suffering to be self-made, they indeed would experience it apart from contact — that is not possible. And those who declare it to be made by another,