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2. The Udumbarika Sutta The Story of Nigrodha the Wanderer 49. Thus have I heard: On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling in Rājagaha, on Gijjhakūṭa mountain. Now at that time, Nigrodha the wanderer was staying at the Udumbarika wanderers' park, with a large assembly of wanderers, with some thirty hundred wanderers. Then Sandhāna the householder, in the middle of the day, set out from Rājagaha to see the Blessed One. Then it occurred to Sandhāna the householder: "It is not the right time to see the Blessed One. The Blessed One is in retreat. Nor is it the right time to see the mind-developing bhikkhus. The mind-developing bhikkhus are in retreat. What if I were to go to the Udumbarika wanderers' park, to where Nigrodha the wanderer is?" Then Sandhāna the householder went to the Udumbarika wanderers' park. 50. Now at that time, Nigrodha the wanderer was sitting with a large assembly of wanderers, noisy, with loud and great voices, engaging in various kinds of low talk. Such as: talk of kings, talk of robbers, talk of ministers, talk of armies, talk of fear, talk of wars, talk of food, talk of drink, talk of clothes, talk of beds, talk of garlands, talk of perfumes, talk of relatives, talk of vehicles, talk of villages, talk of market towns, talk of cities, talk of countries, talk of women, talk of heroes, talk of streets, talk of watering places, talk of departed spirits, various talk, talk of the world, talk of the ocean, talk of existence and non-existence, and so on. 51. Nigrodha the wanderer saw Sandhāna the householder approaching from afar. Seeing him, he quieted his assembly: "Be silent, good sirs, do not make a sound, good sirs. This disciple of Gotama the ascetic is coming, Sandhāna the householder. As far as the disciples of Gotama the ascetic are concerned, lay followers in white clothes who reside in Rājagaha, Santi, this Sandhāna the householder is one of them. These venerable ones desire quiet, are trained in quiet, and praise quiet. Perhaps, knowing the assembly to be quiet, they might think it suitable to approach.” When this was said, those wanderers remained silent. 52. Then Sandhāna the householder approached Nigrodha the wanderer. Having approached, he exchanged greetings with Nigrodha the wanderer. Having concluded the courteous and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, Sandhāna the householder said this to Nigrodha the wanderer: “These other sect wanderers, venerable sirs, when they gather and assemble, are noisy, loud, and boisterous, engaged in various kinds of animal talk. Such as talk of kings… …or talk of this existence and other existences. But that Blessed One, he resorts to remote forest and jungle dwellings, quiet, with little noise, uninhabited by people, suitable for seclusion.” 53. When this was said, Nigrodha the wanderer said this to Sandhāna the householder: “Indeed, householder, you should know, with whom does the ascetic Gotama converse? With whom does he engage in discussion? With whom does he engage in an exchange of wisdom? The ascetic Gotama’s wisdom is ruined by empty dwellings; the ascetic Gotama is not accustomed to assemblies; he is not fit for conversation. He frequents only the remote places. Just as a cow with a lame leg, wandering at the edges, frequents only the remote places. Even so, the ascetic Gotama’s wisdom is ruined by empty dwellings; the ascetic Gotama is not accustomed to assemblies; he is not fit for conversation. He frequents only the remote places. Come, householder, should the ascetic Gotama come to this assembly, we would confound him with a single question, we would, I think, suppress him like an empty pot.” 54. The Blessed One heard this with his purified divine ear element, This conversation of the householder Sandhana, who surpassed human qualities, with the wanderer Nigrodha. Then the Blessed One descended from Vulture Peak mountain, and approached the peacock sanctuary on the bank of Sumāgadhā; having approached, he walked in the open air at the peacock sanctuary on the bank of Sumāgadhā. The wanderer Nigrodha saw the Blessed One walking in the open air at the peacock sanctuary on the bank of Sumāgadhā. Having seen, he settled his assembly, saying: "Sirs, be quiet, sirs, do not make noise. This recluse Gotama is walking in the open air at the peacock sanctuary on the bank of Sumāgadhā. Indeed, that venerable one desires quiet, he praises quiet. Perhaps, having known this assembly to be quiet, he might think it fit to approach. If the recluse Gotama were to come to this assembly, we would ask him this question: ‘What, venerable sir, is that teaching of the Blessed One, by which the Blessed One trains his disciples, by which the disciples, trained by the Blessed One, declare that they have attained assurance in the fundamental holy life, in their aspiration?’" When this was said, those wanderers were silent. The Discourse on Asceticism and Repulsion 55. Then the Blessed One approached where the wanderer Nigrodha was. Then the wanderer Nigrodha said to the Blessed One: "Please come, venerable sir, Blessed One, welcome, venerable sir, Blessed One. It has been a long time, venerable sir, since the Blessed One made this journey, that is, to come here. Let the Blessed One sit, venerable sir, this seat is prepared." The Blessed One sat on the prepared seat. And the wanderer Nigrodha, taking a low seat, sat down to one side. To Nigrodha the wanderer, who was sitting to one side, the Blessed One said: "What kind of talk, Nigrodha, were you engaged in just now? And what was the topic of your unfinished discussion?" When this was said, the wanderer Nigrodha said to the Blessed One: "Here, venerable sir, we saw the Blessed One at the peacock sanctuary on the bank of Sumāgadhā..." walking in the open air, we saw him and said this: 'If the ascetic Gotama were to come to this assembly, we would ask him this question: 'What, venerable sir, is that teaching of the Blessed One by which the Blessed One trains his disciples, by which the Blessed One's disciples, trained, declare themselves to have attained reassurance in the fundamental holy life?' This, venerable sir, was our conversation, left unfinished; then the Blessed One arrived.'" 56. "That, Nigrodha, is difficult for you to know, who hold other views, other preferences, other inclinations, who are engaged in other practices, who follow other teachers, by which I train my disciples, by which my disciples, trained, declare themselves to have attained reassurance in the fundamental holy life. Come now, Nigrodha, ask me a question about your own teacher's doctrine of self-mortification. 'How, venerable sir, is self-mortification complete, and how is it incomplete?'" When this was said, those wanderers became noisy, loud and boisterous, saying: "Amazing, friends! Wonderful, friends! The great power and great might of the ascetic Gotama! For he will set aside his own doctrine and challenge with another's doctrine!" 57. Then the wanderer Nigrodha, having silenced those wanderers, said to the Blessed One: "Venerable sir, we are proponents of self-mortification, we consider self-mortification essential, we are devoted to self-mortification. How, venerable sir, is self-mortification complete, and how is it incomplete?" "Here, Nigrodha, an ascetic is naked, of loose conduct, licking his hands, not coming when asked, not stopping when asked, not accepting food brought to him, not accepting food prepared specifically for him, not accepting an invitation. He does not accept from the mouth of a pot, nor from the mouth of a bowl, nor from between two cross-sticks, nor from between two pestles, nor from between two people eating, nor from a pregnant woman, nor from a nursing woman, nor from a woman with a man between her, not in gatherings, nor where she is present, nor where flies swarm, he drinks no fish, no meat, no liquor, no strong drink, no rice-gruel; he is a one-house-beggar, or a one-mouthful-beggar, or a two-house-beggar, or a two-mouthful-beggar, or a seven-house-beggar, or a seven-mouthful-beggar; he sustains himself with one alms-gathering, he sustains himself with two alms-gatherings, he sustains himself with seven alms-gatherings; he eats food once a day, he eats food once every two days, he eats food once every seven days; thus he lives devoted to the practice of eating at regular intervals, even for half a month. He is a vegetable-eater, or a wild-rice-eater, or a water-plant-eater, or a moss-eater, or a rice-bran-eater, or a rice-scum-eater, or a rice-gruel-eater, or a oil-cake-eater, or a grass-eater, or a cow-dung-eater; he sustains himself on forest roots and fruits, eating fallen fruits. He wears coarse hempen clothes, he wears coarse woven clothes, he wears clothes from corpses, he wears rag-robes from dust-heaps, he wears tree-bark clothes, he wears antelope hide, he wears strips of antelope hide, he wears kusa-grass garments, he wears bark garments, he wears wood-shaving garments, he wears hair blankets, he wears horse-hair blankets, he wears owl-wing garments; he is a hair-and-beard plucker, devoted to the practice of plucking hair and beard; he is a stander, rejecting a seat; he is a squatter, devoted to the practice of squatting; he is a thorn-bed sleeper, making his bed on thorns; he makes his bed on planks, he makes his bed on the bare ground, he is a one-sided sleeper, covered in dust and dirt; he is an open-air dweller, living as he finds himself; he is a food-rejecter, devoted to the practice of rejecting food; he is a non-drinker, devoted to the practice of not drinking; he lives devoted to the practice of descending into water three times in the evening. What do you think, Nigrodha, if this is so, is this asceticism and self-mortification is it complete or incomplete?" "Indeed, venerable sir, in that case, the ascetic practice is complete, not incomplete." "Even when it is thus complete, Nigrodha, I declare various defilements