English
English version: ‘What I call the two kinds of thorough understanding are: the thorough understanding of the principle (宗通, zōng tōng, understanding through realization) and the thorough understanding of speech (言说通, yán shuō tōng, understanding through verbal expression). The one who speaks teaches the beginners (童蒙, tóng méng, the uninitiated), while the principle is for the practitioners.’ At that time, Mahamati Bodhisattva said to the Buddha: ‘World Honored One! As the World Honored One once said: ‘The various discussions and debates of the world, do not learn or approach them. If you learn and approach them, you will be bound by greed and will not receive the Dharma.’ Why did the World Honored One say this?’ The Buddha told Mahamati: ‘The speech of the world, with its various phrases and flavors, uses causes and conditions, metaphors and embellishments to adorn itself, enticing and deceiving foolish ordinary people. They cannot enter into true self-understanding, cannot awaken to the reality of all dharmas, but are merely deluded and inverted, falling into the two extremes (of eternalism and nihilism). Ordinary people are foolish and deluded, destroying themselves, continuing in various realms of existence without liberation, unable to perceive the manifestation of their own minds, unable to separate from external nature and self-nature, merely clinging to delusional thoughts. Therefore, the speech and various debates of the world cannot escape birth, old age, sickness, death, sorrow, grief, suffering, and distress, but only deceive and confuse people. Mahamati! Śakro devānām indra (释提桓因, Shì tí huán yīn, the lord of the gods, Indra), widely understands various discussions and even creates his own sound theories (声论, shēng lùn, theories about sound). One of the disciples of those worldly debaters, holding the image of a dragon, went to Indra's palace, established a doctrine, and wanted to destroy Indra's thousand-spoked wheel (千辐之轮, qiān fú zhī lún, symbolizing Indra's authority). They proclaimed: ‘Those who obey me will be spared punishment, and those who disobey me will have their heads cut off as an apology for their offense.’ After saying these words, they used worldly theories to subdue Indra. Indra was defeated, his thousand-spoked wheel was destroyed, and then they returned to the human world. Like this, Mahamati! The speech of the world, with its metaphors and embellishments, even animals can use various phrases and flavors to deceive those gods and asuras, causing them to cling to the views of arising and ceasing, let alone humans. Therefore, Mahamati! The speech of the world should be avoided, because it can bring about the cause of suffering, so do not learn or approach it. Mahamati! The worldly debaters only speak about the realm of bodily sensations. Mahamati! There are hundreds of thousands of those worldly debaters, but in the last fifty years of the future (the degenerate age), their collections will be destroyed. Because evil views are prevalent, evil disciples accept their theories. Like this, Mahamati! The worldly discourses destroy the collections, using various phrases and flavors, using causes and conditions and metaphors to embellish, speaking of the affairs of external paths, clinging to their own causes and conditions, without self-understanding. Mahamati!’ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chinese
彼诸外道，无自通论，于余世论，广说无量百千事门，无有自通，亦不自知愚痴世论。” 尔时，大慧白佛言：“世尊！若外道世论，种种句味因譬庄严，无有自通，自事计著者；世尊亦说世论，为种种异方诸来会众天人、阿修罗，广说无量种种句味。亦非自通耶？亦入一切外道智慧言说数耶？” 佛告大慧：“我不说世论，亦无来去，惟说不来不去。大慧！来者，趣聚会生。去者，散坏。不来不去者，是不生不灭。我所说，不堕世论妄想数中。所以者何？谓：不计者外性非性，自心现处。二边妄想所不能转。相境非性，觉自心现，则自心现，妄想不生。妄想不生者，空无相无作，入三脱门，名为解脱。大慧！我念一时，于一处住。有世论婆罗门，来诣我所。不请空闲，便问我言：‘瞿昙！一切所作耶？’我时答言：‘婆罗门！一切所作，是初世论。’彼复问言：‘一切非所作耶？’我复报言：‘一切非所作，是第二世论。’彼复问言：‘一切常耶？一切无常耶？一切生耶？一切不生耶？’我时报言：‘是六世论。’大慧！彼复问我言：‘一切一耶？一切异耶？一切俱耶？一切不俱耶？一切因种种受生现耶？’我时报言：‘是十一世论。’大慧！彼复问言：‘一切无记耶？一切有记耶？有我耶？无我耶？ 现代汉语译本：那些外道，没有自己通达的理论，对于其他的世间理论，广泛地讲述无量百千种事情，没有自己通达的见解，也不自觉地陷入愚痴的世间理论之中。 这时，大慧菩萨问佛说：‘世尊！如果外道的世间理论，用种种语句、韵味、因缘、譬喻来装饰，却没有自己通达的见解，只是执着于自己的事情；世尊您也说世间理论，为来自各个不同地方的聚会大众，包括天人、阿修罗（Asura，一种神道），广泛地讲述无量种种语句韵味。难道也不是自己通达的见解吗？也算入一切外道的智慧言说之列吗？’ 佛告诉大慧菩萨：‘我不说世间理论，也没有来去之说，只说不来不去。大慧！来，是指聚集、会合、产生。去，是指离散、毁坏。不来不去，就是不生不灭。我所说的，不属于世间理论的妄想范畴。为什么呢？因为不执着于外在的自性或非自性，而是自心显现之处。二边的妄想不能动摇它。现象和境界不是真实的自性，觉悟到是自心显现，那么自心显现，妄想就不会产生。妄想不产生，就是空、无相、无作，进入三解脱门（三解脱门：空门，无相门，无作门），名为解脱。大慧！我记得有一次，在一个地方住。有一位世论婆罗门（Brahman，古印度僧侣阶层），来到我这里。没有请求允许，就问我说：“乔达摩（Gautama，释迦摩尼的姓氏）！一切都是所作的吗？”我当时回答说：“婆罗门！一切都是所作的，这是最初的世间理论。”他接着问：“一切都不是所作的吗？”我回答说：“一切都不是所作的，这是第二种世间理论。”他又问：“一切是常吗？一切是无常吗？一切是生吗？一切是不生吗？”我当时回答说：“这是六种世间理论。”大慧！他又问我：“一切是一吗？一切是异吗？一切是俱吗？一切是不俱吗？一切是因种种感受而生起显现的吗？”我当时回答说：“这是十一种世间理论。”大慧！他又问我：“一切是无记吗？一切是有记吗？有我吗？无我吗？”’
English
English version: Those non-Buddhist practitioners do not have their own comprehensive theories. Regarding other worldly theories, they extensively discuss countless hundreds of thousands of topics, lacking their own thorough understanding and unknowingly falling into foolish worldly theories. At that time, Mahamati (Mahamati, a Bodhisattva) said to the Buddha: 'World Honored One! If the worldly theories of non-Buddhists are adorned with various phrases, flavors, causes, and metaphors, yet they lack their own comprehensive understanding and merely cling to their own affairs; World Honored One, you also speak of worldly theories, extensively discussing countless various phrases and flavors for the assembled masses from various regions, including gods, humans, and Asuras (Asura, a type of deity). Is that not also lacking its own comprehensive understanding? Does it also fall into the category of all non-Buddhist wisdom and speech?' The Buddha told Mahamati: 'I do not speak of worldly theories, nor do I speak of coming and going; I only speak of neither coming nor going. Mahamati! Coming refers to gathering, assembling, and arising. Going refers to scattering and destruction. Neither coming nor going is neither arising nor ceasing. What I speak of does not fall into the category of worldly theories and delusions. Why? Because it does not cling to external self-nature or non-self-nature, but rather to the manifestation of one's own mind. The delusions of the two extremes cannot shake it. Phenomena and realms are not true self-nature; realizing that they are manifestations of one's own mind, then one's own mind manifests, and delusions do not arise. When delusions do not arise, it is emptiness, signlessness, and non-action, entering the three doors of liberation (three doors of liberation: emptiness, signlessness, non-action), called liberation. Mahamati! I remember once, staying in one place. A worldly Brahman (Brahman, ancient Indian priestly class) came to me. Without asking for permission, he asked me: 'Gautama (Gautama, Shakyamuni's surname)! Is everything created?' I replied: 'Brahman! Everything is created, that is the first worldly theory.' He then asked: 'Is everything uncreated?' I replied: 'Everything is uncreated, that is the second worldly theory.' He then asked: 'Is everything permanent? Is everything impermanent? Is everything born? Is everything unborn?' I replied: 'These are six worldly theories.' Mahamati! He then asked me: 'Is everything one? Is everything different? Is everything both? Is everything neither? Does everything arise and manifest due to various feelings?' I replied: 'These are eleven worldly theories.' Mahamati! He then asked me: 'Is everything unanswerable? Is everything answerable? Is there a self? Is there no self?' ' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chinese
有此世耶？无此世耶？有他世耶？无他世耶？有解脱耶？无解脱耶？一切刹那耶？一切不刹那耶？虚空耶？非数灭耶？涅槃耶？瞿昙！作耶？非作耶？有中阴耶？无中阴耶？’大慧！我时报言：‘婆罗门！如是说者，悉是世论。非我所说，是汝世论。我唯说无始虚伪妄想习气种种诸恶，三有之因，不能觉知自心现量而生妄想，攀缘外性。如外道法，我诸根义，三合智生。我不如是，婆罗门！我不说因，不说无因。惟说妄想摄所摄性，施设缘起，非汝所及余堕受我相续者，所能觉知。’大慧！涅槃、虚空、灭，非有三种，但数有三耳。 “复次，大慧！尔时世论婆罗门，复问我言：‘痴爱业因故，有三有耶？为无因耶？’我时报言：‘此二者，亦是世论耳。’彼复问言：‘一切性皆入自共相耶？’我复报言：‘此亦世论。婆罗门！乃至意流妄计外尘，皆是世论。’ “复次，大慧！尔时世论婆罗门，复问我言：‘颇有非世论者不？我是一切外道之宗，说种种句味、因缘、譬喻庄严。’我复报言：‘婆罗门！有非汝有者。非为，非宗，非说，非不说种种句味，非不因譬庄严。’婆罗门言：‘何等为非世论，非非宗，非非说？’我时报言：‘婆罗门！有非世论，汝诸外道所不能知，以于外性不实妄想虚伪计着故 现代汉语译本：‘有今生吗？没有今生吗？有来世吗？没有来世吗？有解脱吗？没有解脱吗？一切都是刹那生灭的吗？一切都不是刹那生灭的吗？有虚空存在吗？没有数尽而灭的存在吗？有涅槃（Nirvana，灭度）吗？瞿昙（Gotama，释迦牟尼的姓）！是造作的吗？不是造作的吗？有中阴身（Bardo，死亡和转世之间的过渡状态）吗？没有中阴身吗？’大慧（Mahamati，菩萨名）！我当时回答说：‘婆罗门（Brahmin，古印度僧侣）！像这样说的人，都是在谈论世俗的理论。不是我所说的，那是你们世俗的理论。我只说无始以来的虚假妄想习气，种种恶业，是导致三有（Three Realms，欲界、色界、无色界）的原因，因为不能觉知自己内心的显现而产生妄想，攀缘外在的事物。就像外道（Heretics，佛教以外的宗教）的法，认为诸根和意识结合产生智慧。我不是这样的，婆罗门！我不说因，也不说无因。只说妄想所摄持和能摄持的性质，施设缘起（Dependent Origination，事物相互依存的产生），不是你以及其他沉溺于感受和执着于我相的人所能觉知的。’大慧！涅槃、虚空、灭，实际上不是三种不同的东西，只是名称上有三种而已。 ‘再者，大慧！当时那个谈论世俗理论的婆罗门，又问我说：‘因为愚痴、爱欲和业力，所以才有三有吗？还是没有原因呢？’我当时回答说：‘这两种说法，也都是世俗的理论罢了。’他接着问：‘一切事物都包含自相和共相吗？’我回答说：‘这也是世俗的理论。婆罗门！乃至意识流动，虚妄地执着于外在的事物，都是世俗的理论。’ ‘再者，大慧！当时那个谈论世俗理论的婆罗门，又问我：‘难道没有不是世俗理论的吗？我是一切外道的宗师，用种种语句、意味、因缘、譬喻来装饰我的理论。’我回答说：‘婆罗门！有不是你所拥有的。不是造作，不是宗派，不是用言语表达，也不是不用种种语句和意味表达，不是不用因缘和譬喻来装饰。’婆罗门问：‘什么是不属于世俗理论，不属于非宗派，不属于非言语表达的呢？’我当时回答说：‘婆罗门！有不是世俗理论的，是你们这些外道所不能理解的，因为你们对外在事物不真实的妄想虚伪地执着。’
English
English version: 'Is there this world? Is there no this world? Is there another world? Is there no other world? Is there liberation? Is there no liberation? Is everything momentary? Is everything not momentary? Is there emptiness? Is there no cessation of enumeration? Is there Nirvana (extinction)? Gotama (family name of Buddha)! Is it made? Is it not made? Is there an intermediate existence (Bardo)? Is there no intermediate existence?' Mahamati (name of a Bodhisattva)! I then replied, 'Brahmin (member of the priestly class in ancient India)! Those who speak thus are all engaged in worldly theories. These are not my teachings, but your worldly theories. I only speak of beginningless false imagination, habitual tendencies of various evils, the cause of the Three Realms (of existence), which arise from not realizing the manifestation of one's own mind and clinging to external objects. Like the doctrines of the heretics (non-Buddhists), who believe that wisdom arises from the combination of the senses and consciousness. I am not like that, Brahmin! I do not speak of cause, nor do I speak of no cause. I only speak of the nature of what is grasped and what grasps, established by discrimination, which is not understood by you or others who are immersed in feelings and clinging to the notion of self.' Mahamati! Nirvana, emptiness, and cessation are not actually three different things, but only three different names. 'Furthermore, Mahamati! At that time, the Brahmin who discussed worldly theories asked me again, 'Is there the Three Realms because of ignorance, craving, and karma? Or is there no cause?' I then replied, 'These two views are also worldly theories.' He then asked, 'Do all things contain both self-nature and common nature?' I replied, 'This is also a worldly theory. Brahmin! Even the flow of consciousness, falsely clinging to external objects, is a worldly theory.' 'Furthermore, Mahamati! At that time, the Brahmin who discussed worldly theories asked me again, 'Is there anything that is not a worldly theory? I am the master of all heretics, adorning my theories with various phrases, meanings, causes, and metaphors.' I replied, 'Brahmin! There is something that you do not possess. It is not made, not a sect, not expressed in words, nor not expressed in various phrases and meanings, nor not adorned with causes and metaphors.' The Brahmin asked, 'What is it that is not a worldly theory, not a non-sect, not a non-verbal expression?' I then replied, 'Brahmin! There is something that is not a worldly theory, which you heretics cannot understand, because you falsely cling to unreal imaginations about external objects.' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------