English
English version: 'Accumulating merit is not as good as discussing merit, the essence of merit.' 'What do you think, Subhuti! Is it appropriate to view the Tathagata (如来) as being accomplished in a physical body?' Subhuti replied, 'It should not be so, World Honored One! It is not appropriate to view the Tathagata as being accomplished in a physical body. Why is that? World Honored One! The accomplishment of a physical body, the Tathagata says is not an accomplishment, therefore, it is called the accomplishment of a physical body.' The World Honored One said, 'What do you think, Subhuti! Is it appropriate to view the Tathagata as being complete in physical characteristics?' Subhuti replied, 'It should not be so, World Honored One! It is not appropriate to view the Tathagata as being complete in physical characteristics. Why is that? World Honored One! The completeness of physical characteristics, the Tathagata says is not completeness, therefore, it is called the completeness of physical characteristics.' The World Honored One said, 'What do you think, Subhuti! Even so, would the Tathagata think, “I teach the Dharma (法)?”' Subhuti replied, 'It should not be so, World Honored One! The Tathagata would not think, “I teach the Dharma.”' The World Honored One said, 'Subhuti! If I were to say, “The Tathagata teaches the Dharma,” that would be slandering me. Subhuti! That is not a true understanding. Why is that? Teaching the Dharma, teaching the Dharma, Subhuti! In reality, there is no Dharma that can be called teaching the Dharma.' At that time, the Venerable Subhuti said to the World Honored One, 'World Honored One! Even so, in the future, in later times, after a long time, in the Dharma-ending age, when the true Dharma is declining, if someone hears this kind of teaching about the nature of phenomena, will they believe it?' The World Honored One said, 'Subhuti! They are neither sentient beings nor non-sentient beings. Why is that? Sentient beings, sentient beings, Subhuti! All are not sentient beings, the Tathagata says they are not sentient beings, therefore, they are called sentient beings. What do you think, Subhuti! Is there any Dharma that the Tathagata has realized through Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi (无上正等正觉)?' The Venerable Subhuti replied, 'World Honored One! There is no Dharma that the Tathagata has realized through Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi.' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chinese
世尊言：“如是，如是！善实！如是，如是！微小彼中法无有、不可得，彼故说名无上正遍知者。虽然复次时，善实！平等正法，彼不中有不平等，彼故说名无上正遍知者。无我故、无寿故、无众生故、无人故，平等。无上正遍知，一切善法证觉。善法、善法者，善实！非法，如是彼，如来说；彼故，说名善法者。 “若复，善实！所有三千大千世界须弥山王，彼所有聚七宝，普散如来、应、等正遍知施与。若此智慧彼岸到，乃至四句等偈，受已，为他等分别，此，善实！福聚，彼前者福聚，百上亦数不及，千上亦，百千上亦，俱致百千上亦，俱致那由他百千上亦，僧企耶亦，迦罗亦，算亦，譬喻亦，忧波泥奢亦，乃至譬喻亦不及。 “彼何意念？善实！虽然，如来如是念：‘我众生度脱。’不？复彼，善实！如是见应。彼何所因？有无，善实！无有一众生若如来度脱。若复，善实！有，如是众生有，若彼如来度脱。彼如是，如来我取有，众生取、寿取、人取有。我取、我取者，善实！非取，此，如来说；彼小儿凡夫生取。小儿凡夫生、小儿凡夫生者，善实！非生，彼，如来说；彼故，说名小儿凡夫生者。 “彼何意念？善实！相具足如来见应？”善实言：“不如此，世尊！如我，世尊说义 现代汉语译本 世尊说：‘是这样，是这样！善实（Subhuti）！是这样，是这样！在其中，微小的法也是不存在、不可得的，因此被称为无上正遍知者（Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi，无上正等正觉）。虽然如此，善实！平等正法中，没有不平等，因此被称为无上正遍知者。因为无我、无寿、无众生、无人，所以是平等的。无上正遍知，是证悟一切善法。善法、善法，善实！非法，如来是这样说的；因此，被称为善法。’ ‘如果，善实！所有三千大千世界（Trisahasra-maha-sahasra-lokadhatu）的须弥山王（Sumeru）堆积的七宝，都用来布施如来、应供、等正遍知，如果有人从这智慧彼岸（Prajnaparamita）得到，乃至四句偈，接受后，为他人分别解说，善实！这福德的聚集，比前者布施的福德聚集，百倍不及，千倍不及，百千倍不及，俱致百千倍不及，俱致那由他百千倍不及，僧企耶（Samkhya）倍不及，迦罗（Kala）倍不及，算数倍不及，譬喻倍不及，忧波泥奢（Upaniṣad）倍不及，乃至譬喻也无法比拟。’ ‘你认为如何？善实！虽然，如来这样想：‘我度脱众生。’不是吗？善实！应该这样理解。这是什么原因呢？善实！实际上没有一个众生是被如来度脱的。如果，善实！有这样的众生存在，是被如来度脱的，那么如来就有了我执，有了众生执、寿者执、人执。我执、我执，善实！不是执着，如来是这样说的；这是小儿凡夫的执着。小儿凡夫生、小儿凡夫生，善实！不是生，如来是这样说的；因此，被称为小儿凡夫生。’ ‘你认为如何？善实！应该以具足相来见如来吗？’善实说：‘不应该这样，世尊！正如世尊所说的意义。’
English
English version The Blessed One said: 'It is so, it is so! Subhuti! It is so, it is so! In it, even the smallest dharma is non-existent and unattainable, therefore it is called the Unsurpassed Perfect Enlightenment (Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi). Although, Subhuti! In the equal and righteous dharma, there is no inequality, therefore it is called the Unsurpassed Perfect Enlightenment. Because of no self, no life, no sentient beings, and no person, it is equal. The Unsurpassed Perfect Enlightenment is the realization of all good dharmas. Good dharma, good dharma, Subhuti! Not dharma, thus the Tathagata speaks; therefore, it is called good dharma.' 'If, Subhuti! All the Sumeru (Sumeru) mountains of the three thousand great thousand worlds (Trisahasra-maha-sahasra-lokadhatu), piled with seven treasures, were given as alms to the Tathagata, the Arhat, the Perfectly Enlightened One, and if someone, having attained this shore of wisdom (Prajnaparamita), even a four-line verse, having received it, were to explain it to others, Subhuti! This accumulation of merit, compared to the former accumulation of merit, is not even a hundred times, a thousand times, a hundred thousand times, a koti hundred thousand times, a koti nayuta hundred thousand times, a Samkhya times, a Kala times, a calculation times, a simile times, an Upaniṣad times, not even comparable by simile.' 'What do you think? Subhuti! Although, the Tathagata thinks thus: 'I liberate sentient beings.' Is it not so? Subhuti! It should be understood thus. What is the reason for this? Subhuti! In reality, there is not a single sentient being that is liberated by the Tathagata. If, Subhuti! There were such sentient beings, who were liberated by the Tathagata, then the Tathagata would have self-attachment, sentient being attachment, life attachment, and person attachment. Self-attachment, self-attachment, Subhuti! Is not attachment, thus the Tathagata speaks; this is the attachment of ordinary ignorant people. Ordinary ignorant birth, ordinary ignorant birth, Subhuti! Is not birth, thus the Tathagata speaks; therefore, it is called ordinary ignorant birth.' 'What do you think? Subhuti! Should the Tathagata be seen by the possession of marks?' Subhuti said: 'It should not be so, Blessed One! As the meaning spoken by the Blessed One.' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 解，我不相具足如来见应。”
Chinese
世尊言：“善，善！善实！如是，如是！善实！如如语汝，不相具足如来见应。彼何所因？彼复，善实！相具足如来见应；有彼王转轮，如来有；彼故，不相具足如来见应。此相非相故，如来见应。”尔时，命者善实世尊边如是言：“如我，世尊！世尊说义解，我不相具足如来见应。” 尔时，世尊彼时此伽陀说： “若我色见， 若我声求， 邪解脱行， 不我见彼。 “法体佛见应， 法身彼如来， 法体及不识， 故彼不能知。 “彼何意念？善实！相具足，如来无上正遍知证觉？不，复彼，善实！如是见应。彼何所因？不，善实！相具足，如来无上正遍知证觉。复时，彼，善实！有如是语：‘菩萨乘发行，有法破灭，施设断。’不，复，善实！如是见应。彼何所因？不菩萨乘发行有法破灭，施设不断。 “若复，善实！善家子，若善家女，若恒伽河沙等世界七宝满作已施与；若菩萨摩诃萨无我、无生中，法中忍得。此如是，彼缘，多过福聚生。不，复，善实！菩萨福聚取应。”命者善实言：“不，世尊！菩萨福聚取应？”世尊言：“取应，善实！不取应，彼故说名取应。 “虽然复次时，善实！若有如是语：‘如来去、若不去 现代汉语译本：‘我理解，不应该以具足相来观察如来。’ 世尊说：‘好，好！善实！确实如此！正如你所说，不应该以具足相来观察如来。这是什么原因呢？因为，善实！如果以具足相来观察如来，那么转轮圣王也具有这样的相，如来也具有这样的相；因此，不应该以具足相来观察如来。因为此相非相，所以应该这样观察如来。’当时，善实尊者对世尊说：‘如我理解，世尊所说的道理是，不应该以具足相来观察如来。’ 当时，世尊说了这首偈颂： ‘如果我以色相来观察，如果我以音声来寻求，这是邪见解脱的修行，我不会这样看待他。’ ‘应该以法身来观察佛，法身才是如来，法身是不可识别的，所以他们不能了解。’ ‘你认为如何？善实！以具足相，如来证得无上正等正觉吗？不，善实！不应该这样看待。这是什么原因呢？不，善实！不是以具足相，如来证得无上正等正觉。’又有时，善实！有人会这样说：‘菩萨乘的修行，有法会破灭，施设会断绝。’不，善实！不应该这样看待。这是什么原因呢？不是菩萨乘的修行有法会破灭，施设会断绝。 ‘如果，善实！善男子或善女人，用恒河沙数世界充满七宝来布施；如果菩萨摩诃萨在无我、无生的法中获得忍耐。这样，这种因缘，会产生更多的福德聚集。不，善实！不应该认为菩萨应该执着于福德聚集。’善实尊者说：‘世尊！菩萨不应该执着于福德聚集吗？’世尊说：‘应该执着，善实！不执着，所以才说应该执着。’ ‘虽然如此，善实！如果有人这样说：‘如来去，或者不去’
English
English version: 'I understand, one should not view the Tathagata by means of complete marks.' The World-Honored One said: 'Good, good! Good indeed! It is so, it is so! Good indeed! As you say, one should not view the Tathagata by means of complete marks. What is the reason for this? Because, good indeed! If one were to view the Tathagata by means of complete marks, then a Wheel-Turning King would also have such marks, and the Tathagata would also have such marks; therefore, one should not view the Tathagata by means of complete marks. Because these marks are not marks, therefore, one should view the Tathagata in this way.' At that time, the Venerable Good Indeed said to the World-Honored One: 'As I understand, the meaning of what the World-Honored One has said is that one should not view the Tathagata by means of complete marks.' At that time, the World-Honored One spoke this verse: 'If I see by form, if I seek by sound, this is a practice of wrong liberation, I will not see him in this way.' 'One should see the Buddha by the Dharma body, the Dharma body is the Tathagata, the Dharma body is unrecognizable, therefore they cannot understand.' 'What do you think? Good indeed! By means of complete marks, does the Tathagata realize Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi (Unsurpassed Perfect Enlightenment)? No, good indeed! One should not view it in this way. What is the reason for this? No, good indeed! It is not by means of complete marks that the Tathagata realizes Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi.' And sometimes, good indeed! Someone might say: 'The practice of the Bodhisattva vehicle, there are dharmas that will be destroyed, and establishments that will be cut off.' No, good indeed! One should not view it in this way. What is the reason for this? It is not that the practice of the Bodhisattva vehicle has dharmas that will be destroyed, and establishments that will be cut off. 'If, good indeed! A good son or a good daughter, were to give offerings filling worlds as numerous as the sands of the Ganges River with the seven treasures; if a Bodhisattva Mahasattva obtains forbearance in the dharma of no-self and no-birth. In this way, this condition will generate a greater accumulation of merit. No, good indeed! One should not think that a Bodhisattva should be attached to the accumulation of merit.' The Venerable Good Indeed said: 'World-Honored One! Should a Bodhisattva not be attached to the accumulation of merit?' The World-Honored One said: 'One should be attached, good indeed! Not being attached, therefore it is said that one should be attached.' 'Although it is so, good indeed! If someone were to say: 'The Tathagata goes, or does not go' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chinese
、若住、若坐、若卧、若如法。’不我，善实！说义解。彼何所因？如来者，善实！说名无所去、无所来，彼故说名如来、应、正遍知者。 “若复，善实！善家子，若善家女，若所有三千大千世界地尘，彼如是色类墨作已，乃至如是不可数，譬如最小聚。彼何意念？善实！虽然，彼多最小聚有？” 善实言：“如是，如是！世尊！多彼最小聚有。彼何所因？彼，世尊！聚有，不世尊说最小聚者。彼何所因？若彼，世尊！最小聚说；非聚，彼，如来说；彼故，说名最小聚者。若及如来说三千大千世界者；非界，如来说；彼故，说名三千大千世界者。彼何所因？彼，世尊！界有，彼如是抟取有。若如是，如来抟取说；非取，彼，如来说；彼故，说名抟取者。” 世尊言：“抟取，如是，善实！不世俗语，不可说，非法，非非法，彼小儿凡夫生取。彼何所因？若此有，善实！如是说：‘我见，如来说，众生见、寿见、人见，如来说。’虽然，彼，善实！正说语？”善实言：“不如此，世尊！不如此，善逝！彼何所因？若彼，世尊！我见，如来说；非见，彼，如来说；彼故，说名我见者。” 世尊言：“如是，此，善实！菩萨乘发行，一切法知应，见应，信解应。如信解，如无法想亦住。彼何所因 现代汉语译本：'无论是住、坐、卧，还是如法而行。'不我，善实！请解释其中的含义。这是什么原因呢？如来，善实！被称为无所去、无所来，因此被称为如来、应、正遍知（Tathāgata, Arhat, Samyaksaṃbuddha）。 ‘再者，善实！善家子或善家女，如果将三千大千世界（Trisāhasra-mahāsāhasra-lokadhātu）的尘土都用来制成墨，甚至多到不可计数，就像最小的微粒一样。你认为如何？善实！即使如此，这些微粒的数量多吗？’ 善实回答说：‘是的，是的！世尊！这些微粒的数量很多。这是什么原因呢？世尊！因为它们是微粒的集合，而世尊您并没有说它们是最小的微粒。这是什么原因呢？世尊！如果说它们是最小的微粒，那是因为如来（Tathāgata）说它们不是微粒的集合；因此，它们被称为最小的微粒。如果如来说三千大千世界，那是因为如来说它不是一个界限；因此，它被称为三千大千世界。这是什么原因呢？世尊！因为它们是界限的集合，它们是这样被聚合起来的。如果如来说聚合，那是因为如来说它不是聚合；因此，它被称为聚合。’ 世尊说：‘聚合是这样的，善实！它不是世俗的语言，不可说，既不是法，也不是非法，而是小儿凡夫的执取。这是什么原因呢？如果有人这样说：‘我见如来说，众生见、寿见、人见，如来说。’那么，善实！他们说的是正确的吗？’善实回答说：‘不是这样的，世尊！不是这样的，善逝（Sugata）！这是什么原因呢？世尊！如果说我见是如来说的，那是因为如来说它不是见；因此，它被称为我见。’ 世尊说：‘正是这样，善实！菩萨（Bodhisattva）的修行就是这样，应该知道一切法，应该见到一切法，应该信解一切法。就像信解一样，也应该安住于无法想。这是什么原因呢？’