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The tirttaka saw, therefore, that he was conquered ; and he reflect-ed thus : — " If I say that the rdpa and other khandas are sustained by the &tma, the Lichawi princes will say to me, ' Then how is it that your person is not IX. THE ONTOLOGY OF BUDHISM. 443 as comely and beautif al as ours P ' and if I say that it is not thus sustained, G6tama will say that it is contrary to my former de- claration." He, therefore, remained silent. Budha again said to him, '^ You say that the rdpa is the self, that it is sustained by the dtma. Now if you determine that your outward form, rdpa, shall be beautiful, will it thus happen, will your wish be accomplished ? You say that the w6dand are the self, that they are sustained by the 4tma; now if you determine that the w6dani shall be pleasant, will it thus happen P The same question was asked relative to the other khandas, and to all the tirttaka replied in the negative. Budha : '* Are the five khandas permanent or impermanent P " Sachaka : " Impermanent." Budha : " Is that which is impermanent connected with satis, faction or sorrow ? " Sachaka : " With sorrow." Budha : " If death is followed by life, and thus a repetition of sorrow is en- dured, is it not from ignorance that any one says, I belong to that, or, that belongs to me ; the dtma belongs to the five khandas, or the five khandas belong to the dtma P " Thus was Sachaka overcome, as he was brought to confess that the five khandas are impermanent, connected with sorrow, unreal^ not the self. 4. (To return to the narrative of Ndgas^na). The king enquired of the priest how old he was when he was ordained, and he replied that he was seven years of age P Milinda : " Is the ' seven ' of which you speak attached to you or to the years ; does the seven exist because of you, or do you exist because of the seven P " At this moment the fine form of the monarch, with all his royal ornaments, was reflected on the ground, and N%as6na said to him, " When your shadow appears in a vessel of water, are you the king, or is the shadow the king P " Milinda : *^ 1 am the king ; the shadow is not the king ; because of me the shadow appears." Ndgas^na: "In like manner, I was ordained when I was seven years of age ; but I was not the seven ; because of me the seven existed." 5. The king requested to hold farther conversation with Nd- gas6na ; and when the priests said that kings are impatient of contradiction and sometimes punish their opponents, he replied that he did not wish to be regarded as a king whilst they were carrying on their argument. Milinda said it was then late ; and after requesting that the discussion might be renewed on 444 A MANUAL OF BUDfflSM. the following day, in the interior of the palace, he monnted his chariot and returned home. The next morning Ndgas^na, attended by 80,000 priests, went to the palace, when one of the nobles respectfolly said, "We call yon Nagasena; who is NiLgas^na ? " The priest replied, " Who do yon think is Ndga- s^na" The noble: "The living breath, prdnawdta, that is within Nagasena ; that which is inspirated and ezpirated ; this is Ndgas^na." The priest : " Does the breath of those who play upon reeds, or horns, or trumpets, or who soond the conch retnm to them again ? " The noble : " No." The priest : ** Then how is it that those who blow these instruments do not die ? " The noble : " I am not able to argue with so acute a reasoner ; pray tell me how it is." The priest : " The breath is not the life ; it is only dsw^a and prdsw^, that which is inspirated and ezpirated, it is merely an element of the body, kdya-sansldra." 6. The king said to N&gas6na, when the discussion was recommenced, " A being is bom from his mother's womb. Does that being continue the same until his death, or does he become another ? " Ndgas^na : " He is not the same ; neither is he another.*' When the king requested him to explain this by a figure he said, ^ What think you P At one time you were a child, young in years, small in person, and unable to rise ; are you now that child, or have you become an adult ? " Milinda : " I am not that child now ; I am another ; an adult." N^iga- s6na : " Then i£ this be the case, if you have become another, there is no mother, no father, no teacher, no disciple, no one who obeys the precepts, no wise person; the embryo in its different stages is not nourished by the same mother ; he who learns the sciences is another ; he who commits sin is another ; he who is punished is another." Milinda : " Why do you state these things ? " Nagasena : " I was once a child, carried in the arms, but now I am an adult; by means of this body, the embiyo in its different stages, the youth, and the adult, are united together, or connected. When a man Hghts a lamp, does the same lamp continue to bum during the whole night ? " Milinda : " Yes." Ndgas^na : " What, is there the same flame in the middle watch that there is when the lamp is first lighted?" Milinda: "No." Nigas^na: "Is there the same flame in the morning watch?" Milinda: "No." Nagasena: IX. THE ONTOLOGY OF BUDHISM. 445 '' Wliat, is there one wick in the eyening watch, and another in the middle watch, and another in the morning watch ? '* Milinda: *' No ; the lamp bums through the whole of the night, because it has the same wick." Ndgas^na : " In the same way, great king, one being is conceived ; another is bom ; another dies ; when comprehended by the mind, it is like a thing that has no before, and no after; no preceding, no succeeding existence. Thus the being who is bom, does not continue the same, nor does he become another; the last winyina, or consciousness, is thus united with the rest for, he is thus connected with the last winy&na).* Again milk that has been put by for a night becomes curd ; from this curd comes butter ; and this butter turns to oil ; now if any one were to say that that milk is curd, or that it is butter; would he speak cor- rectly P " Milinda : " No : because of the milk, oil has gradually been produced." Ndgas^na : '* In the same way, one being is conceived, another is bom, another dies; when comprehended by the mind, it is like that which has no before and no after ; no preceding, no succeeding existence. Thus the being who is bom does not continue the same, neither does he become another ; the last winydna is thus united with the rest (or, he is thus con- nected with the last winydna).'' 7. Again, the king said to Ndgas^na, " What is it that is con- ceived ? " N&gas6na replied, *' These two : nama and rdpa." Milinda : " Are the same nama and rdpa that are conceived here, or in the present birth, conceived elsewhere, or in another birth ? " Ndgas6na : " No : this ndma and rdpa (or mind and body) acquires karma, whether it be good or bad : and by means of this karma, another niLma and rdpa is produced." Milinda : " Then if the same n&ma and rdpa is not again pro- duced, or conceived, that being is delivered from the con- sequences of sinful action." Ndgasena : " How so ? If there be no fature birth (that is, if nirwana be attained), there is deliverance ; but if there be a future birth, deliverance from the * I am net able to translate the last clause of this sentence in any way that does not leaye it doubtful whether I hare rightly apprehended the meaning. By one priest whom I consulted, it is said to mean, '* The last winjina is the real being ; emphatically, the man." But the whole sentence is thus translated by Mr. Go^erly from the original Pali, '* Thus, great king, a living being flows on ; one is conceiyed, another bora, another dies ; flows on as being neither the preceding nor the succeeding ; it is not the same, or yet another ; and so proceeds to the last accession of consciousness.'' 446 A MANUAL OF BUDHISM. conseqnences of sinfnl action does not necessarily follow. Thus a man steals a number of mangos, and takes them away ; bnt he is seized by the owner, who brings him before the king, and says, ' Sire, this man has stolen my mangos.' But the robber replies, ' I have not stolen his mangos ; the mango he set in the ground was one ; these mangos are other and different to that; I do not deserve to be punished.' Now, your majesty, would this plea be valid ; would no punishment be deserved ? " Milinda: ''He would certainly deserve punishment." Naga- s6na : " Why ?