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The Seventeenth Chapter 1. Discourse on the Arahant's Accumulation of Merit 776. Is there accumulation of merit for an Arahant? Yes. Is there accumulation of demerit for an Arahant? It should not be said thus... Is there no accumulation of demerit for an Arahant? Yes. Is there no accumulation of merit for an Arahant? It should not be said thus.... 777. Is there accumulation of merit for an Arahant? Yes. Does an Arahant perform meritorious volitional formations, perform imperturbable volitional formations, perform actions leading to rebirth, perform actions leading to existence, perform actions leading to sovereignty, perform actions leading to supremacy, perform actions leading to great wealth, perform actions leading to a large retinue, perform actions leading to divine good fortune, perform actions leading to human good fortune? It should not be said thus.... 778. Is there accumulation of merit for an Arahant? Yes. Does an Arahant accumulate? It should not be said thus... Does an Arahant diminish? It should not be said thus... Does an Arahant abandon...? Does an Arahant grasp...? Does an Arahant untie...? Does an Arahant tie...? Does an Arahant shake off...? Does an Arahant shake together? It should not be said thus... Does an Arahant neither accumulate nor diminish, having diminished and stands? Yes. If an Arahant neither accumulates nor diminishes, having diminished and stands, then it should certainly not be said: "There is accumulation of merit for an Arahant." Does an Arahant neither abandon nor grasp, having abandoned and stands, neither untie nor tie, having untied and stands, neither shake off nor shake together, having shaken off and stands? Yes. If an Arahant neither shakes off nor shakes together, having shaken off and stands, then it should certainly not be said: "There is accumulation of merit for an Arahant." 779. Is there no accumulation of merit for an Arahant? Yes. Would an Arahant give a gift? Yes. If an Arahant would give a gift, then it should certainly not be said: "There is no accumulation of merit for an Arahant." i. An Arahant would give a robe... would give almsfood... would give a dwelling... would give requisites for the sick, medicine... would give hard food... would give soft food... would give drink... would venerate a shrine... would place a garland on a shrine... would place perfume... would place ointment... would circumambulate a shrine clockwise? Yes. If an Arahant would circumambulate a shrine clockwise, then it should not be said – "There is no accumulation of merit for an Arahant." The discussion on "There is accumulation of merit for an Arahant" is concluded. 17. The Seventeenth Chapter (167) 2. The discussion on "There is no untimely death for an Arahant." 780. Is there no untimely death for an Arahant? Yes. Is there no slayer of Arahants? It should not be said so... Is there a slayer of Arahants? Yes. Is there untimely death for an Arahant? It should not be said so... Is there no untimely death for an Arahant? Yes. He who deprives an Arahant of life, does he deprive him of life while life remains, while there is a remainder of life, or does he deprive him of life when there is no life, no remainder of life? He deprives him of life while life remains, while there is a remainder of life. If he deprives him of life while life remains, while there is a remainder of life, then it should not be said – "There is no untimely death for an Arahant." If he deprives him of life when there is no life, no remainder of life, is there no slayer of Arahants? It should not be said so.... 781. Is there no untimely death for an Arahant? Yes. Would poison not enter an Arahant's body, would a weapon not enter, would fire not enter? It should not be said so... Surely poison would enter an Arahant's body, a weapon would enter, fire would enter? Yes. If poison would enter an Arahant's body, a weapon would enter, fire would enter, then it should not be said – "There is no untimely death for an Arahant." Would poison not enter an Arahant's body, would a weapon not enter, would fire not enter? Yes. Is there no slayer of Arahants? It should not be said so.... 782. Is there untimely death for an Arahant? Yes. Surely It was said by the Blessed One: "Monks, I do not say that willed actions, done and accumulated, come to an end without experiencing their result; whether in this very life, or in some other state." Is there such a discourse? Yes. Then there is no untimely death for an Arahant. The discussion on 'There is no untimely death for an Arahant' is concluded. 17. The Seventeenth Chapter (168) 3. The discussion on 'All this is from kamma' 783. Is all this from kamma? Yes. Is kamma also from kamma? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is all this from kamma? Yes. Is all this due to past deeds? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is all this from kamma? Yes. Is all this from kamma-result? It should not be said thus... (etc.) 784. Is all this from kamma-result? Yes. Does one kill a living being by kamma-result? Yes. Is the destruction of life fruitful? Yes. Is kamma-result fruitful? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is kamma-result unfruitful? Yes. Is the destruction of life unfruitful? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Does one take what is not given by kamma-result? (etc., for similar unwholesome actions) speak falsely? speak divisively? speak harshly? speak idle chatter? break into houses? plunder? commit a single-house robbery? stand on the highway (as a robber)? go to another's wife? commit village destruction? commit town destruction? Does one give a gift by kamma-result? give robes? give almsfood? give lodging? give requisites for the sick, medicine, and provisions? Yes. Are requisites for the sick, medicine, and provisions fruitful? Yes. Is kamma-result fruitful? It should not be said thus... (etc.) Is kamma-result unfruitful? Yes. Are requisites for the sick, medicine, and provisions unfruitful? It should not be said thus... (etc.) 785. Should it not be said: "All this is from kamma"? Yes. But was it not said by the Blessed One: "By kamma the world revolves, by kamma it revolves" ... people exist; Beings are bound by kamma, Like the linchpin of a moving chariot. "By kamma one gains fame and praise, By kamma, loss, killing, and bondage; Knowing kamma's diverse effects, Why say 'there is no kamma in the world'?" Is there such a Sutta? Yes. Therefore, "all this is from kamma." The discussion on "all this is from kamma" is concluded. 17. The Seventeenth Chapter (169) 4. Discussion on what is bound by faculties 786. Is only what is bound by faculties suffering? Yes. Is only what is bound by faculties impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to decay, subject to vanishing, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change? It should not be said thus... Is not what is not bound by faculties impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to decay, subject to vanishing, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change? Yes. If what is not bound by faculties is impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to decay, subject to vanishing, subject to dispassion, subject to cessation, subject to change, then it should certainly not be said: "Only what is bound by faculties is suffering." Is what is not bound by faculties, impermanent, conditioned... subject to change, and is that not suffering? Yes. Is what is bound by faculties, impermanent, conditioned... subject to change, and is that not suffering? It should not be said thus... Is what is bound by faculties, impermanent, conditioned... subject to change, and is that suffering? Yes. Is what is not bound by faculties, impermanent, conditioned... subject to change, and is that suffering? It should not be said thus... 787. Is only what is bound by faculties suffering? Yes. Has it not been said by the Blessed One: "What is impermanent, that is suffering" – and "what is not bound by faculties is impermanent"? Yes. If what is impermanent, that is suffe- Indeed, [Samyutta Nikaya 3.15] it was said by the Blessed One – What is not bound by the faculties is impermanent, but it should not be said – ‘Only what is bound by the faculties is suffering.’ 788. Should it not be said – ‘Only what is bound by the faculties is suffering’? Yes. Just as for the full understanding of suffering bound by the faculties, the holy life is lived in the Blessed One, so too for the full understanding of suffering not bound by the faculties, the holy life is lived in the Blessed One? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Just as suffering bound by the faculties, when fully understood, does not arise again, so too suffering not bound by the faculties, when fully understood, does not arise again? It should not be said thus. Therefore, only what is bound by the faculties is suffering. The discourse on what is bound by the faculties is concluded. 17. The Seventeenth Chapter (170) 5. The discourse on 'Except for the Noble Path' 789. Except for the Noble Path, are all remaining formations suffering? Yes. Is the origin of suffering also suffering? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Is the origin of suffering also suffering? Yes. Are there only three Noble Truths? It should not be said thus… (etc.) Are there only three Noble Truths? Yes. But were not four Noble Truths declared by the Blessed One – suffering, the origin of suffering, the cessation of suffering, the path leading to the cessation of suffering? Yes. If four Noble Truths were declared by the Blessed One – suffering, the origin of suffering, the cessation of suffering, the path leading to the cessation of suffering; then it should not be said – ‘There are only three Noble Truths.’ Is the origin of suffering also suffering? Yes. For what reason? For the reason of impermanence. Is the Noble Path impermanent? Yes. Is the Noble Path suffering? It should not be said thus… (etc.) The Noble Path is impermanent,