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By this reason too, O great king, know that 'there is no life or being in water; because of the great force of heat from fire, water makes a sound'." "I too, O great king, have something to ask you, so that this problem may be well-resolved. Does water, O great king, being heated, make a sound in all vessels, or does it make a sound only in some vessels when being heated?" "No, venerable sir, not in all" Water makes a sound when heated in vessels, only in some vessels does water make a sound when heated. "In that case, great king, you have abandoned your own doctrine, you have come back to my domain, there is no life or being in water. If, great king, water made a sound when heated in all vessels, it would be proper to say 'water is alive'. For, great king, water is not of two kinds, that which makes a sound, lives, that which does not make a sound, does not live. If, great king, water were alive, when great elephant-kings, with massive bodies, in rut, draw it up with their trunks, put it in their mouths, and send it into their bellies, that water too would make a sound, being crushed between their teeth. Even great ships with a hundred hands, heavy and laden, filled with hundreds of thousands of burdens, travel in the great ocean, by them too, water would make a sound, being crushed. Even very great fish, with bodies hundreds of yojanas long, Tīmī, Timingalā, Timirapingalā, submerged within, dwelling in the great ocean as their abode, drink and spout great streams of water, for them too, that water would make a sound, being crushed between their teeth or within their bellies. But since, great king, water, when crushed by such great pressures, does not make a sound, therefore, there is no life or being in water. Thus, great king, hold this in mind." "Excellent, venerable Nāgasena, the question that arose from error has been elucidated with a fitting explanation, just as, venerable Nāgasena, a precious jewel, reaching a skilled, expert, well-trained jeweler, would gain renown, praise, and commendation, or a pearl, reaching a pearl-worker, or a fine cloth, reaching a cloth-worker, or red sandalwood, reaching a perfumer, would gain renown, praise, and commendation. Even so, venerable Nāgasena, the question that arose from error has been elucidated with a fitting explanation, thus it is, indeed." I accept it.” The Ninth Question on the Water-Dwelling Being. The First Chapter on the Buddha. In this chapter, there are nine questions. 2. The Chapter on Non-Proliferation 1. The Question on Non-Proliferation “Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: ‘Monks, dwell in non-proliferation, delight in non-proliferation.’ What is that non-proliferation?” “The fruit of stream-entry, great king, is non-proliferation; the fruit of once-returning is non-proliferation; the fruit of non-returning is non-proliferation; the fruit of arahantship is non-proliferation.” “If, Venerable Nāgasena, the fruit of stream-entry is non-proliferation, and the fruits of once-returning, non-returning, and arahantship are non-proliferation, then why do these monks recite, question, and study suttas, mixed prose and verse, expositions, verses, inspired utterances, ‘thus-saids,’ birth stories, marvelous phenomena, and analytical discourses? They busy themselves with new work, with giving and veneration. Do they not perform actions rejected by the Victor?” “Those monks, great king, who recite, question, and study suttas, mixed prose and verse, expositions, verses, inspired utterances, ‘thus-saids,’ birth stories, marvelous phenomena, and analytical discourses, and who busy themselves with new work, with giving and veneration—all of them do so for the attainment of non-proliferation. Those, great king, who are naturally pure, whose latent tendencies were cultivated in the past, they become non-proliferated in a single moment of consciousness. But those monks who are of great royal lineage, they become non-proliferated through these practices. “Just as, great king, one man, having sown seeds in a field, might harvest grain without a fence, by his own strength and effort; and another man, having sown seeds in a field, might enter the forest, cut wood and branches, make a fence, and then harvest grain. That search for a fence is for the sake of the grain. Even so, great king, those who are naturally pure, whose latent tendencies were cultivated in the past, they become non-proliferated in a single moment of consciousness, like a man harvesting grain without a fence. But those monks who are of great royal lineage, they become non-proliferated through these practices— they become free from proliferation, like a man harvesting grain after building a fence. “Just as, great king, if there were a cluster of fruits at the very top of a huge mango tree, and some person with psychic power came there and took those fruits; but one who had no psychic power there, would cut down branches and vines, make a ladder, and climbing that tree with it, would take the fruits. His search for a ladder there is for the sake of the fruits. Even so, great king, those who are naturally pure, whose dispositions were cultivated before, become free from proliferation in a single moment of consciousness, like one with psychic power taking tree fruits. But those monks who are of great royal lineage, they realize the truths by this effort, like a man taking tree fruits with a ladder. “Just as, great king, a man who is a litigant, alone, approaches the master and settles the case. A wealthy man, by means of his wealth, gathers an assembly and settles the case with the assembly. His search for an assembly there is for the sake of the case. Even so, great king, those who are naturally pure, whose dispositions were cultivated before, attain mastery in the six supernormal powers in a single moment of consciousness, like a man settling a case alone. But those monks who are of great royal lineage, they accomplish the purpose of recluseship by these efforts, like a man settling a case with an assembly. “Recitation, great king, is very helpful, inquiry is very helpful, new construction is very helpful, giving is very helpful, offerings are very helpful in those various duties. Just as, great king, a man who serves the king, who is accomplished, is helped by ministers, soldiers, guards, doorkeepers, troops, and courtiers; all of them are helpful to him when his duties arise. Even so, great king, recitation is very helpful, inquiry is very helpful, new construction is very helpful, giving is very helpful, offerings are very helpful in those various duties. If, great king, all are of noble birth would be pure, and there would be no need for instruction. But because, great king, there is need for listening, the Elder Sāriputta, great king, who accumulated roots of merit for an immeasurable, incalculable eon, and reached the pinnacle of wisdom, even he could not attain the destruction of the defilements without listening. Therefore, great king, listening is of great benefit, and so are exposition and questioning. Therefore, exposition and questioning are simple and conditioned." "The problem has been well clarified, Venerable Nāgasena, it is so, and I accept it thus." The First Problem: Simplicity. 2. The Problem of the State of an Arahant 2. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say: 'If a layperson attains arahantship, there are only two destinies for him, no other: on that very day, he either ordains or attains final Nibbāna. That day cannot be exceeded.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, on that day he does not find a teacher or preceptor, or bowl and robes, would that Arahant ordain himself, or would he exceed the day? Or would some other Arahant, endowed with psychic power, come and ordain him or cause him to attain final Nibbāna?" "That Arahant, great king, would not ordain himself; ordaining oneself incurs a theft. Nor would he exceed the day. The coming of another Arahant might or might not happen. On that very day, he would attain final Nibbāna." "In that case, Venerable Nāgasena, the peaceful state of arahantship is abandoned, whereby for one who has attained it, there is a loss of life." "The lay state, great king, is unsuitable. In an unsuitable state, due to the weakness of the state, a layperson who has attained arahantship either ordains or attains final Nibbāna on that very day. This, great king, is not a fault of arahantship; it is a fault of the lay state itself, namely, the weakness of the state. "Just as, great king, food, which protects the life and preserves the existence of all beings, takes away the life of one with a disordered stomach, with weak and poor digestion, through non-digestion. This, great king, is not O great king, the fault of food, this is the fault of the stomach, which is a weak digestion. Even so, O great king, a householder who has attained arahantship in an unsuitable state, due to the weakness of the state, on that very day either goes forth or attains final Nibbāna. This, O great king, is not the fault of arahantship, this is the fault of the householder's state, which is the weakness of the state. Or again, O great king, a small blade of grass, placed upon a heavy stone, breaks and falls due to its weakness. Even so, O great king, a householder who has attained arahantship, being unable to sustain arahantship in that state, on that very day either goes forth or attains final Nibbāna. Or again, O great king, a person who is weak, feeble, of low birth, of little merit, having obtained a great kingdom, in a moment falls apart, is destroyed, declines, is unable to sustain sovereignty. Even so, O great king, a householder who has attained arahantship is unable to sustain arahantship in that state. For that reason, on that very day either goes forth or attains final Nibbāna. "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, I accept it thus as it is." The second question on the nature of an Arahant. 3.