English
” “Even so, great king, Māra the Evil One, having hidden himself out of sight, possessed the brahmin householders of Pañcasāla. If, great king, Māra the Evil One were to obstruct the prepared offerings dedicated to the Blessed One, his head would split into a hundred or a thousand pieces.” “It is so, venerable Nāgasena, this was done by Māra the Evil One by stealth; Māra the Evil One, having hidden himself, possessed the brahmin householders of Pañcasāla. If, venerable sir, Māra the Evil One were to obstruct the prepared offerings dedicated to the Blessed One, his head would split into a hundred or a thousand pieces, or his body would scatter like a handful of chaff. Good, venerable Nāgasena, I accept this as such.” The fifth question is about the obstruction of the Buddha’s gain. 6. The Question of Demerit 6. “Venerable Nāgasena, you say, ‘One who takes life unknowingly produces greater demerit.’ Yet, the Blessed One has stated in the Vinaya regulations, ‘There is no offense for one who does not know.’ If, venerable Nāgasena, one who takes life unknowingly produces greater demerit, then the statement, ‘There is no offense for one who does not know,’ is false. If there is no offense for one who does not know, then the statement, ‘One who takes life unknowingly produces greater demerit,’ is also false. is wrong. This two-edged question, difficult to answer, difficult to overcome, has come to you; it must be resolved by you.” “This was said, great king, by the Blessed One: ‘One who, not knowing, commits the destruction of life, accumulates more demerit.’ And again, in the Vinaya rules, the Blessed One said: ‘No offense for one who does not know.’ There is a difference in meaning there. What is the difference in meaning? There is, great king, an offense from which one is freed by perception, and there is an offense from which one is not freed by perception. Regarding that offense, great king, from which one is freed by perception, the Blessed One said: ‘No offense for one who does not know.’” “Good, Venerable Nāgasena, I accept it as such.” The Sixth Question on Demerit. 7. The Question on Sustaining the Sangha of Monks 7. “Venerable Nāgasena, this was said by the Blessed One: ‘Ananda, it does not occur to the Tathāgata: “I will sustain the Sangha of monks,” or “The Sangha of monks is directed by me.”’ And again, when describing the natural qualities of the Blessed One Metteyya, the Blessed One said this: ‘He will sustain a Sangha of monks of many thousands, just as I now sustain a Sangha of monks of many hundreds.’ If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: ‘Ananda, it does not occur to the Tathāgata: “I will sustain the Sangha of monks,” or “The Sangha of monks is directed by me,”’ then the statement ‘I now sustain a Sangha of monks of many hundreds’ is wrong. If the Tathāgata said: ‘He will sustain a Sangha of monks of many thousands, just as I now sustain a Sangha of monks of many hundreds,’ then the statement ‘Ananda, it does not occur to the Tathāgata: “I will sustain the Sangha of monks,” or “The Sangha of monks is directed by me”’ is also wrong. This two-edged question has come to you; it must be resolved by you.” “This was said, great king, the Blessed One said: “Ananda, it does not occur to the Tathāgata: ‘I shall lead the community of monks,’ or ‘The community of monks is dependent on me.’” And again, the Blessed One, revealing the natural qualities of the Blessed Metteyya, said: “He will lead a community of monks of many thousands, just as I now lead a community of monks of many hundreds.” In this question, great king, one meaning is incomplete, one meaning is complete. The Tathāgata, great king, does not follow the assembly; rather, the assembly follows the Tathāgata. This, great king, is a conventional expression: “I” and “mine.” This is not ultimate truth. Love has ceased for the Tathāgata, great king, affection has ceased. There is no grasping of “mine” for the Tathāgata. But there is a reliance based on clinging. Just as, great king, the earth is a ground, a support for beings, a refuge, and these beings stand on the earth, but the great earth has no expectation of “these are mine”; even so, great king, the Tathāgata is a support, a refuge for all beings, and these beings stand on the Tathāgata, but the Tathāgata has no expectation of “these are mine.” Or just as, great king, a vast great cloud, raining down, gives growth to grass, trees, flowers, and humans, and sustains their continuity. And all these beings live by the rain, but the great cloud has no expectation of “these are mine.” Even so, great king, the Tathāgata generates and sustains wholesome states for all beings. And all these beings live by the Teacher, but the Tathāgata has no expectation of “these are mine.” For what reason? Because the view of self has been abandoned. “Excellent, venerable Nāgasena! The question has been thoroughly unravelled with many reasons. The profound has been made clear, the knot has been untied, the dense has been made open, darkness has been made light, the arguments of others have been broken, an eye has been produced for the sons of the Victor.” Leading the Community of Monks the seventh question. 8. The Question of the Unbreakable Assembly 8. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the Tathāgata has an unbreakable assembly', and again you say 'Devadatta split five hundred monks with one blow'. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Tathāgata has an unbreakable assembly, then the statement that Devadatta split five hundred monks with one blow is false. If Devadatta split five hundred monks with one blow, then the statement 'the Tathāgata has an unbreakable assembly' is also false. This two-horned question has come to you, deep and hard to untangle, more knotted than a knot, in which this populace is entangled, covered, enveloped, hidden, surrounded. Here, show your power of knowledge in refuting others' views." "The Tathāgata has an unbreakable assembly, great king, and Devadatta did split five hundred monks with one blow. But that was by the power of the splitter; when there is a splitter, great king, there is nothing called unbreakable. When there is a splitter, a mother is split from her son, a son is split from his mother, a father is split from his son, a son is split from his father, a brother is split from his sister, a sister is split from her brother, a friend is split from a friend. A ship, though constructed of various timbers, is split by the impact of waves. A tree, laden with honey-like fruit, is split when struck by the force of the wind. Even pure gold is split by iron. But, great king, this is not the intention of the wise, this is not the conviction of the Buddhas, this is not the desire of the learned, that 'the Tathāgata has a breakable assembly'. And there is a reason here, by which reason the Tathāgata is called 'one with an unbreakable assembly'. What is that reason here? It has never been heard, great king, that the Tathāgata's assembly was split by any act of not giving, or by unkind speech, or by harmful conduct, or by inequality, or by any conduct whatsoever. For that reason, the Tathāgata is called 'one with an unbreakable assembly'." And by you, O great king, it should be known: 'Is there anything in the nine-fold Buddha-word, come down in the suttas, that by this very reason, done by a Bodhisatta, the Tathāgata's assembly was split?' "No, venerable sir, nor is this seen or heard in the world. Good, venerable Nāgasena, I accept this thus." The question of the un-splittable assembly is the eighth. The Chapter on the Un-splittable is the second. In this chapter there are eight questions. 3. The Chapter on Reverence 1. The question of the supreme Dhamma 1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Indeed, Vāseṭṭha, the Dhamma is supreme among people in this very life and in the life to come.' And again: 'A lay follower, a householder, a stream-enterer, with the doors to the lower realms closed, who has attained vision, who has understood the teaching, salutes and rises for a monk, or a novice, or a common person.' If, venerable Nāgasena, it was said by the Blessed One: 'Indeed, Vāseṭṭha, the Dhamma is supreme among people in this very life and in the life to come,' then that saying: 'A lay follower, a householder, a stream-enterer, with the doors to the lower realms closed, who has attained vision, who has understood the teaching, salutes and rises for a monk, or a novice, or a common person,' is wrong. If 'A lay follower, a householder, a stream-enterer, with the doors to the lower realms closed, who has attained vision, who has understood the teaching, salutes and rises for a monk, or a novice, or a common person,' then that saying too: 'Indeed, Vāseṭṭha, the Dhamma is supreme among people in this very life and in the life to come,' is wrong. This too is a two-horned question that has come to you, and it must be resolved by you." "This was spoken by the Blessed One, O great king: 'Indeed, Vāseṭṭha, the Dhamma is supreme among people in this very life and in the life to come,' and 'A lay follower, a householder, a stream-enterer, with the doors to the lower realms closed, who has attained vision, who has understood the teaching, salutes and rises for a monk, or a novice, or a common person.' But there is a reason for that. What is that reason? "Indeed, O great king, these twenty qualities that make one a recluse and two marks, which Indeed, a recluse is worthy of salutation, rising up, reverence, and veneration. What are the twenty qualities that make one a recluse, and the two marks? The best delight in Dhamma, the foremost discipline, conduct, abiding, restraint, self-control, patience, gentleness, solitary practice, delight in solitude, seclusion, shame and dread of wrongdoing, energy, diligence, undertaking the training, recitation, questioning, delight in virtue and so on, non-attachment, completion of the training rules,