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I ask you, Blessed One, tell me this." 71. "They desire, they praise, they murmur, they offer; [Puṇṇaka, said the Blessed One] They murmur for desires, dependent on gain; Those, bound by sacrifice, attached to the craving for existence, Did not cross birth and old age, I say." 72. "If those, bound by sacrifice, did not cross, [Thus spoke the venerable Puṇṇaka:] Birth and old age by sacrifices, O Master; Then who indeed, in the world of gods and humans, Crossed birth and old age, O Master? I ask you, Blessed One, tell me this." 73. "Having understood the higher and lower in the world, [Puṇṇaka, said the Blessed One] Whose agitation is nowhere in the world; Peaceful, smokeless, without affliction, without longing, He crossed birth and old age, I say." The third, Puṇṇaka's Question. 4. Mettagū's Question 74. "I ask you, Blessed One, tell me this, [Thus spoke the venerable Mettagū:] I consider you a knower of the Vedas, one whose self is developed; From where have these sufferings arisen, Whatever various kinds there are in the world?" 75. "You ask me about the origin of suffering, [Mettagū, said the Blessed One] I will tell you that, as I understand it; Sufferings arise from attachment as their cause, Whatever various kinds there are in the world. 76. "Indeed, the ignorant one who makes attachment, Repeatedly experiences suffering, the fool; Therefore, knowing, one should not make attachment, Observing the origin and arising of suffering." 77. "That which you..." We asked, you did not tell us, We ask you another, please tell us now: ‘How do the wise cross the flood, birth, old age, sorrow, and lamentation?’ Explain this well to me, O Sage, for indeed, this Dhamma is known to you.” 78. “I will declare the Dhamma to you, [said the Blessed One to Mettagū] in this very life, without delay; knowing which, and mindful, one may cross over attachment in the world.” 79. “And I rejoice in that, O Great Seer, in that supreme Dhamma; knowing which, and mindful, one may cross over attachment in the world.” 80. “Whatever you perceive, [said the Blessed One to Mettagū] above, below, across, or in the middle; having dispelled delight and attachment in these, consciousness does not remain in existence.” 81. “A bhikkhu dwelling thus, mindful and diligent, having abandoned all possessiveness; birth, old age, sorrow, and lamentation, here and now, the wise one abandons suffering.” 82. “I rejoice in these words of the Great Seer, well-declared by Gotama, without clinging; Truly, the Blessed One has abandoned suffering, for indeed, this Dhamma is known to you.” 83. “Surely they too would abandon suffering, whom you, O Sage, would instruct when they are distressed; I pay homage to you, O Great One, may the Blessed One instruct me when I am distressed.” 84. “That brahmin whom one knows as a knower of the Vedas, who is without possessions, unattached to sensual existence; truly, he has crossed this flood, crossed to the other shore, without blemish, without longing.” 85. “And the wise person here, a knower of the Vedas, having abandoned this attachment to existence and non-existence; he, without craving, without trouble, without despair, he has crossed birth and old age, so I say.” The Fourth Question of Mettagū the Student. 5. The Question of Dhotaka the Student 86. “I ask you, Blessed One, tell me this, [thus said the venerable Dhotaka] I long for your words, O Great Seer; having heard your voice, I may train for my own Nibbāna.” 87. “Then make an effort, [said the Blessed One to Dhotaka] here and now, discerning and mindful; having heard my voice from here, you may train for your own Nibbāna.” 88. “I see in the world of gods and humans, without possessions, O Brah being carried away by the current; That, that I salute, All-seeing One, release me, Sakka, from doubts.’’ 89. ‘‘I am not able to release, anyone in the world who is in doubt, Dhotaka; Knowing the excellent Dhamma, thus you will cross this flood.’’ 90. ‘‘Instruct me, Brahma, out of compassion, the Dhamma of solitude that I may know; So that I, like the sky, unblemished, may live here unattached.’’ 91. ‘‘I will declare to you peace, [Dhotaka, said the Blessed One] in this very life, without delay; Knowing which, mindful, living, you will cross attachment in the world.’’ 92. ‘‘And I rejoice in that, Great Seer, supreme peace; Knowing which, mindful, living, you will cross attachment in the world.’’ 93. ‘‘Whatever you fully comprehend, [Dhotaka, said the Blessed One] above, below, across, and in the middle; Knowing this as attachment in the world, do not make craving for becoming and non-becoming.’’ The Fifth Question of the student Dhotaka. 6. The Question of the student Upasīva 94. ‘‘Alone, Sakka, I am unable, [thus said the venerable Upasīva] unsupported, to cross the great flood; Tell me a support, All-seeing One, relying on which I may cross this flood.’’ 95. ‘‘Looking at nothingness, mindful, [Upasīva, said the Blessed One] relying on ‘there is nothing,’ cross the flood; Having abandoned sensual pleasures, detached from talk, see the destruction of craving, day and night.’’ 96. ‘‘He who is dispassionate towards all sensual pleasures, [thus said the venerable Upasīva] relying on nothingness, having abandoned conceit; Liberated in the supreme liberation of perception, would he remain there, not following on?’’ 97. ‘‘He who is dispassionate towards all sensual pleasures, [Upasīva, said the Blessed One] relying on nothingness, having abandoned conceit; Liberated in the supreme liberation of perception, he would remain there, not following on.’’ 98. ‘‘If he would remain there, not following on, for a multitude of years, All-seeing One; Would he be cooled there, liberated, would the consciousness of such a one cease?’’ 99 . “As a flame, struck by a gust of wind, [Upasīva, said the Blessed One] Goes out and cannot be reckoned; So a sage, freed from the name-body, goes out and cannot be reckoned.” 100. “Has he gone out, or does he not exist, or is he eternally free from illness? Explain this to me, O Sage, for this Dhamma is known to you.” 101. “For one who has gone out, there is no measure, [Upasīva, said the Blessed One] By which one might speak of him, that is not for him; When all phenomena are removed, all paths of speech are also removed.” The Sixth Question of Upasīva the Student. 7. The Seventh Question of Nanda the Student 102. “There are sages in the world, [thus spoke the venerable Nanda] People say, how is this so? Do they call one a sage who is endowed with knowledge, or one who is endowed with life?” 103. “Not by views, nor by learning, nor by knowledge, do the skilled here call one a sage, O Nanda; Those who, having cast off the dart, are free from trouble, without craving, And wander, these I call sages.” 104. “Whatever ascetics and brahmins there are, [thus spoke the venerable Nanda] Who speak of purity by what is seen and heard; Who speak of purity by virtue and vows, Who speak of purity in many ways; Have they, O Blessed One, striving and wandering there, Crossed over birth and old age, O Master? I ask you, O Blessed One, tell me this.” 105. “Whatever ascetics and brahmins there are, [Nanda, said the Blessed One] Who speak of purity by what is seen and heard; Who speak of purity by virtue and vows, who speak of purity in many ways; Though they strive and wander there, I say they have not crossed over birth and old age.” 106. “Whatever ascetics and brahmins there are, [thus spoke the venerable Nanda] Who speak of purity by what is seen and heard; Who speak of purity by virtue and vows, who speak of purity in many ways; If you, O Sage, say they have not crossed the flood, then who in the world of gods and humans; Has crossed over birth and old age, O Master? I ask you, O Blessed One, tell me this.” 107. “I do not say that all ascetics and brahmins, [Nanda, said the Blessed One] Are enveloped by birth and old age;” Those who here, what is seen or heard or sensed, or all morality and vows, having abandoned all; and all diverse forms, having abandoned all, having fully understood craving, are without defilements; Those people, I declare, have crossed the flood. 108. I rejoice in the word of the Great Seer, well-proclaimed by Gotama, without substratum; Those who here, what is seen or heard or sensed, or all morality and vows, having abandoned all; and all diverse forms, having abandoned all, having fully understood craving, are without defilements; I too declare them to have crossed the flood. Nanda's Question, the Seventh. 8. Hemaka's Question 109. Those who previously explained to me, [thus spoke the venerable Hemaka] apart from Gotama's teaching; 'It was thus, it will be thus' - all that is mere hearsay; all that is an increase of speculation; I did not delight in that. 110. But you, O Sage, teach me the Dhamma, the destruction of craving; Knowing which, walking mindfully, one may cross attachment in the world. 111. Here, in what is seen, heard, sensed, and cognized, in pleasant forms, O Hemaka; The removal of desire and lust, that is the deathless state of Nibbana. 112. Those who, knowing this, are mindful, are extinguished in this very life; And they are always peaceful, having crossed attachment in the world. Hemaka's Question, the Eighth. 9. Todeyya's Question 113. In whom desires do not dwell, [thus spoke the venerable Todeyya] in whom craving is not found; And who has crossed doubt, what kind of liberation is his? 114. In whom desires do not dwell, [thus spoke the Blessed One to Todeyya] in whom craving is not found; And who has crossed doubt, his liberation is none other. 115. Is he without hope, or hoping? Is he wise, or a mere speculator? How may I know the sage, O Sakka? Explain that to me, O All-Seeing One. 116. He is without hope, and not hoping; He is wise, and not a mere speculator; Thus, O Todeyya, know the sage: