English
‘Yes, friend,’ Venerable Dāsaka, having assented to the elder monks, went to Venerable Khemaka; having gone, he said this to Venerable Khemaka – ‘The elders, friend Khemaka, have said this to you – “That which, friend Khemaka, you say ‘I am’, what is that you say ‘I am’? Do you say ‘I am form’ or ‘I am’ apart from form? ‘I am feeling’... ‘I am perception’... ‘I am volitional formations’... ‘I am consciousness’ or ‘I am’ apart from consciousness? That which, friend Khemaka, you say ‘I am’, what is that you say ‘I am’?”’ ‘Enough, friend Dāsaka, what is this running about for! Bring, friend, a stick; I myself will go to the elder monks.’ Then Venerable Khemaka, leaning on a stick, went to the elder monks; having gone, he exchanged greetings with the elder monks. Having concluded the courteous and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. As Venerable Khemaka sat to one side, the elder monks said this to him – ‘That which, friend Khemaka, you say ‘I am’, what is that you say ‘I am’? Do you say ‘I am form’, or ‘I am’ apart from form? ‘I am feeling’... ‘I am perception’... ‘I am volitional formations’... ‘I am consciousness’, or ‘I am’ apart from consciousness? That which, friend Khemaka, you say ‘I am’, what is that you say ‘I am’?” ‘Indeed, friend, I do not say ‘I am form’; nor do I say ‘I am’ apart from form. Not feeling... not p... I do not say that I am other than the formations, nor do I say that I am other than consciousness. But, friend, in the five clinging-aggregates, I have attained 'I am,' yet I do not perceive 'this I am.' "Just as, friend, there is the fragrance of a blue lotus, or a red lotus, or a white lotus. If someone were to say, 'It is the fragrance of the petals,' or 'It is the fragrance of the color,' or 'It is the fragrance of the pollen,' would that person be speaking correctly?" "No, friend." "Then how, friend, would one speak correctly?" "One would speak correctly, friend, by saying, 'It is the fragrance of the flower.'" "Even so, friend, I do not say that I am form, nor do I say that I am other than form. I do not say that I am feeling... I do not say that I am perception... I do not say that I am formations... I do not say that I am consciousness, nor do I say that I am other than consciousness. But, friend, in the five clinging-aggregates, I have attained 'I am,' yet I do not perceive 'this I am.'" "Although, friend, the five lower fetters are abandoned in a noble disciple, yet there remains in him the conceit 'I am,' the desire 'I am,' the underlying tendency 'I am,' which is not uprooted, accompanying the five clinging-aggregates. Later, with the passage of time, he dwells observing the rise and fall in the five clinging-aggregates: 'Such is form, such is the origin of form, such is the passing away of form; such is feeling... such is perception... such are formations... such is consciousness, such is the origin of consciousness, such is the passing away of consciousness.' As he dwells observing the rise and fall in these five clinging-aggregates, that conceit 'I am,' that desire 'I am,' that underlying tendency 'I am,' accompanying the five clinging-aggregates, which was not uprooted, that too is eradicated. "Just as, friend, a cloth is soiled, stained with dirt. Its owners would give it to a washerman. Then the washerman, having scrubbed it with lye or salt or cow dung, rinses it in clear water. Although that cloth is pure and clean, yet there remains a lingering smell of lye or salt or cow dung, not yet removed. Then the washerman gives it to the owners. Then the owners place it in a perfumed casket. And whatever lingering smell of lye or salt or cow dung remained, not yet removed, that too is eliminated. Just so, friends, although for a noble disciple the five lower fetters have been abandoned, yet there remains a lingering underlying tendency in the five aggregates of clinging: "I am," the conceit "I am," the desire "I am," not yet uprooted. Later, he dwells observing the rise and fall of the five aggregates of clinging. "Such is form, such is the origin of form, such is the passing away of form; such is feeling... such is perception... such are mental formations... such is consciousness, such is the origin of consciousness, such is the passing away of consciousness." As he dwells observing the rise and fall of these five aggregates of clinging, whatever lingering underlying tendency in the five aggregates of clinging remained: "I am," the conceit "I am," the desire "I am," not yet uprooted, that too is eliminated. When this was said, the elder monks said to Venerable Khemaka: "We did not question Venerable Khemaka with the intention of annoyance, but Venerable Khemaka was able to explain, teach, declare, establish, reveal, analyze, and make clear the teaching of the Blessed One in detail. And so, Venerable Khemaka has explained, taught, declared, established, revealed, analyzed, and made clear the teaching of the Blessed One in detail." This is what Venerable Khemaka said. Delighted, the elder monks rejoiced in Venerable Khemaka's words. And as this explanation... While the explanation was being delivered, the minds of sixty elder monks were liberated from the taints, without clinging, and also of Venerable Khemaka. The Seventh. 8. The Discourse on Channa 90. At one time many elder monks were dwelling in Bārāṇasī at Isipatana, in the Deer Park. Then Venerable Channa, having emerged from seclusion in the evening, taking a key, went from dwelling to dwelling and said to the elder monks: "May the venerable elders advise me, may the venerable elders instruct me, may the venerable elders give me a discourse on the Dhamma, so that I may see the Dhamma." When this was said, the elder monks said to Venerable Channa: "Form, friend Channa, is impermanent; feeling is impermanent; perception is impermanent; formations are impermanent; consciousness is impermanent. Form is not-self; feeling... perception... formations... consciousness is not-self. All formations are impermanent; all phenomena are not-self." Then it occurred to Venerable Channa: "Indeed, this is also how it is for me – 'Form is impermanent, feeling... perception... formations... consciousness is impermanent; form is not-self, feeling... perception... formations... consciousness is not-self. All formations are impermanent, all phenomena are not-self.' Yet, my mind, in the calming of all formations, in the relinquishing of all attachments, in the destruction of craving, in dispassion, in cessation, in Nibbāna, does not leap forward, does not become confident, does not settle, does not become resolute. Agitation and clinging arise; my mind turns back – 'Then what, indeed, is my self?' But it is not for one who sees the Dhamma in this way. Who now could teach me the Dhamma so that I may see the Dhamma?" Then it occurred to Venerable Channa: "Indeed, Venerable Ānanda is dwelling in Kosambī, at Ghositārāma, praised by the Teacher and esteemed by his wise fellow practitioners, and Venerable Ānanda is capable of... Oh, may he teach the Dhamma so that I may see the Dhamma. And I have such confidence in the venerable Ānanda. What if I were to go to where the venerable Ānanda is? Then indeed, the venerable Channa, having put his lodging in order, and taking his bowl and robe, went to Kosambī, to Ghositārāma, to where the venerable Ānanda was. Having approached, he exchanged greetings with the venerable Ānanda... (etc.) Seated to one side, the venerable Channa spoke to the venerable Ānanda thus: "Once, friend Ānanda, I was dwelling in Bārāṇasī, in Isipatana, the Deer Park. Then, friend, in the evening, having risen from seclusion, I took the key and went from dwelling to dwelling. Having approached, I spoke to the elder monks thus: 'May the venerable elders advise me, may the venerable elders instruct me, may the venerable elders give me a Dhamma talk so that I may see the Dhamma.' When this was said, friend, the elder monks spoke to me thus: 'Form, friend Channa, is impermanent; feeling... perception... formations... consciousness is impermanent; form is not-self... (etc.)... consciousness is not-self. All formations are impermanent, all phenomena are not-self.'" "Then, friend, it occurred to me: 'Indeed, it is so for me too: form is impermanent... (etc.)... consciousness is impermanent, form is not-self, feeling... perception... formations... consciousness is not-self. All formations are impermanent, all phenomena are not-self.' But my mind does not leap into, nor become confident in, nor settle upon, nor become liberated in the calming of all formations, the relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna. Agitation and clinging arise; my mind turns back, thinking: 'Then what, indeed, is my self?' It is not so for one who sees the Dhamma in this way. Who, indeed, could teach me the Dhamma so that I may see the Dhamma? "Then, friend, it occurred to me: 'This venerable Ānanda is dwelling in Kosambī..." dwells in Ghositārāma, praised by the Teacher, esteemed by the wise, his fellow practitioners. And Venerable Ānanda is able to teach me the Dhamma in such a way that I may see the Dhamma. And I have such confidence in Venerable Ānanda. Why don't I approach Venerable Ānanda? Let Venerable Ānanda advise me; let Venerable Ānanda instruct me; let Venerable Ānanda give me a Dhamma talk so that I may see the Dhamma." "Even with this, we are pleased with Venerable Channa, that Venerable Channa has revealed it, has broken the bolt. Lend an ear, friend Channa; you are capable of understanding the Dhamma." Then, just with that, a great joy and delight arose in Venerable Channa: "I am indeed capable of understanding the Dhamma!" "This I heard from the Blessed One himself, friend Channa, and received from him himself, when he was instructing the bhikkhu Kaccānagotta: 'This world, Kaccāna, is for the most part dependent on two things: existence and non-existence.