English
it is reckoned as: 'an untamed death, a newly ordained monk has died'. But even if an old royal elephant, Aggivessana, well-tamed, well-disciplined, dies, it is reckoned as: 'a tamed death, an old royal elephant has died'. Even if a middle-aged royal elephant, Aggivessana... Even if a young royal elephant, Aggivessana, well-tamed, well-disciplined, dies, it is reckoned as: 'a tamed death, a young royal elephant has died'. Just so, Aggivessana, even if an elder monk, whose taints are destroyed, dies, it is reckoned as: 'a tamed death, an elder monk has died'. Even if a middle-aged monk, Aggivessana. Even if a newly ordained monk, Aggivessana, whose taints are destroyed, dies, it is reckoned as: 'a tamed death, a newly ordained monk has died'. This the Blessed One said. Delighted, the novice Aciravata rejoiced in the Blessed One's words. The Discourse on the Tamed Stage, the fifth, is finished. 6. The Discourse with Bhūmija 223. Thus have I heard: On one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, at the Squirrels' Feeding Ground. Then, in the morning, Venerable Bhūmija dressed, took his bowl and robe, and went to the residence of Prince Jayasena. Having approached, he sat down on the seat prepared for him. Then Prince Jayasena approached Venerable Bhūmija. Having approached, he exchanged greetings with Venerable B He exchanged greetings with Bhūmija. Having concluded a courteous and memorable conversation, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, Prince Jayasena then said to Venerable Bhūmija: “There are, good Bhūmija, some ascetics and brahmins who hold such views and speak thus: ‘Even if they lead the holy life with aspiration, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life without aspiration, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life with and without aspiration, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life neither with nor without aspiration, they are incapable of attaining the fruit.’ What does the Teacher of the good Bhūmija say? What does he declare?” “That, Prince, I have not heard directly from the Blessed One, nor received directly from him. But it is possible that the Blessed One would declare thus: ‘Even if they lead the holy life with aspiration, but improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life without aspiration, but improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life with and without aspiration, but improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life neither with nor without aspiration, but improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit. Even if they lead the holy life with aspiration, and properly, they are capable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life without aspiration, and properly, they are capable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life with and without aspiration, and properly, they are capable of attaining the fruit; even if they lead the holy life neither with nor without aspiration, and properly, they are capable of attaining the fruit.’ That, Prince, I have not heard directly from the Blessed One, nor received directly from him. But it is possible that this is so.” that the Blessed One would declare thus." "If, indeed, Venerable Bhūmija's Teacher is thus-speaking, thus-expounding, then surely, Venerable Bhūmija's Teacher stands, I think, having struck the heads of all other recluses and brahmins." Then Prince Jayasena served Venerable Bhūmija with his own meal. 224. Then Venerable Bhūmija, after his meal, having returned from his alms round, approached the Blessed One; having approached, he bowed to the Blessed One, and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, Venerable Bhūmija said this to the Blessed One: "Here, venerable sir, in the morning, having dressed, and taking my bowl and robe, I approached the dwelling of Prince Jayasena; having approached, I sat down on the seat prepared. Then, venerable sir, Prince Jayasena approached me; having approached, he exchanged greetings with me. Having concluded the courteous and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, venerable sir, Prince Jayasena said this to me: 'There are, good Bhūmija, some recluses and brahmins who speak thus, who hold such views: Even if they practice the holy life with aspiration, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they practice the holy life without aspiration, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they practice the holy life with and without aspiration, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even if they practice the holy life neither with aspiration nor without aspiration, they are incapable of attaining the fruit.' 'Here, what does Venerable Bhūmija's Teacher declare, what does he expound?' When this was said, venerable sir, I said this to Prince Jayasena: 'That, Prince, I have not heard directly from the Blessed One, nor received directly from him. But it is possible that the Blessed One would declare thus: Even if they practice the holy life with aspiration, but improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit..." delusion; even having desire, if they lead the holy life improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even having no desire, if they lead the holy life improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even having both desire and no desire, if they lead the holy life improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even having neither desire nor no desire, if they lead the holy life improperly, they are incapable of attaining the fruit. Even having desire, if they lead the holy life properly, they are capable of attaining the fruit; even having no desire… even having both desire and no desire… even having neither desire nor no desire, if they lead the holy life properly, they are capable of attaining the fruit. “This, Prince, I have not heard from the Blessed One’s presence, nor received from his presence. But it is possible that the Blessed One would declare thus.” “If Venerable Bhūmija’s teacher speaks thus, explains thus, then Venerable Bhūmija’s teacher stands, I think, having struck the heads of all other ascetics and brahmins.” “Venerable Sir, if I am asked thus, and explain thus, do I speak in accordance with the Blessed One, and not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is not true, and explain the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, and does no co-dharmic dispute come to a blameworthy point?” “Indeed, Bhūmija, if you are asked thus, and explain thus, you speak in accordance with me, and do not misrepresent me with what is not true, and explain the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, and no co-dharmic dispute comes to a blameworthy point. For whatever ascetics or brahmins, Bhūmija, who have wrong view, wrong intention, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration— even having desire, if they lead the holy life, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even having no desire, if they lead the holy life, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even having both desire and no desire, if they lead the holy life, they are incapable of attaining the fruit; even having neither desire nor no desire, if they lead the holy life, they practice, they are unable to attain the fruit. For what reason? This is not the right way, Bhūmija, to attain the fruit. 225. Just as, Bhūmija, a man desiring oil, seeking oil, searching for oil, might put sand in a trough, and sprinkle it with water, and press it. Even if he were to make a wish, and put sand in a trough, and sprinkle it with water, and press it, he would be unable to attain oil. Even if he were not to make a wish, and put sand in a trough, and sprinkle it with water, and press it, he would be unable to attain oil. Even if he were to make a wish and not make a wish, and put sand in a trough, and sprinkle it with water, and press it, he would be unable to attain oil. Even if he were neither to make a wish nor not make a wish, and put sand in a trough, and sprinkle it with water, and press it, he would be unable to attain oil. For what reason? This is not the right way, Bhūmija, to attain oil. Even so, Bhūmija, whatever recluses or brahmins have wrong view, wrong intention, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration, even if they were to make a wish, and practice the holy life, they are unable to attain the fruit. Even if they were not to make a wish, and practice the holy life, they are unable to attain the fruit. Even if they were to make a wish and not make a wish, and practice the holy life, they are unable to attain the fruit. Even if they were neither to make a wish nor not make a wish, and practice the holy life, they are unable to attain the fruit. For what reason? This is not the right way, Bhūmija, to attain the fruit. Just as, Bhūmija, a man desiring milk, seeking milk, searching for milk, might pull a cow with a young calf by its horn. Even if he were to make a wish, and pull a cow with a young calf by its horn, he would be unable to attain milk. Even if he were not to make a wish… Even if he were to make a wish and not make a wish… …(thus it is said)… even if, having made a wish or not made a wish, one were to pull a young calf by its horn, one would be unable to obtain milk. For what reason? That, Bhūmija, is not the right way to obtain milk. Even so, Bhūmija, whatever recluses or brahmins are of wrong view…(thus it is said)… are of wrong concentration, even if, having made a wish, they practice the holy life, they are unable to obtain the fruit; even if, having not made a wish…(thus it is said)… even if, having made a wish and not made a wish…(thus it is said)… even if, having neither made a wish nor not made a wish, they practice the holy life,