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8. The Great Lion's Roar Discourse The Story of Kassapa the Naked Ascetic 381. Thus have I heard: On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling in Uruññā, in the Migadāya at Kaṇṇakatthala. Then Kassapa the naked ascetic approached the Blessed One. Having approached, he exchanged greetings with the Blessed One. When this courteous and amiable talk was concluded, he stood to one side. Standing to one side, Kassapa the naked ascetic said to the Blessed One: "I have heard this, good Gotama: 'The recluse Gotama disparages all ascetic practices; he totally denounces and censures all ascetics who live a harsh life.' Those who said this, good Gotama: Are they speaking in accordance with what the good Gotama has said? Are they not misrepresenting the good Gotama with what is untrue? Are they explaining the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma? And does no co-dharmic statement or refutation come to a blameworthy conclusion? For we do not wish to misrepresent the good Gotama." 382. "Those who said this, Kassapa: 'The recluse Gotama disparages all ascetic practices; he totally denounces and censures all ascetics who live a harsh life'— they are not speaking in accordance with what I have said, and they misrepresent me with what is false and untrue. Here, Kassapa, I see some ascetic, living a harsh life, with the divine eye, purified and surpassing human sight, who, at the breaking up of the body, after death, is reborn in a state of deprivation, a bad destination, a downfall, in hell. But here, Kassapa, I see some ascetic, living a harsh life, with the divine eye, purified and surpassing human sight, who, at the breaking up of the body, after death, is reborn in a good destination, in a heavenly world. 383. "Here, Kassapa, I see some ascetic, living with little suffering, with the divine eye, purified and surpassing human sight, who, at the breaking up of the body, after death, is reborn in a state of deprivation, a bad destination, a downfall, in hell. Here, And I, Kassapa, see some ascetic living with little suffering with the divine eye, purified, surpassing human sight, after the breaking up of the body, after death, reborn in a good destination, a heavenly world. Since I, Kassapa, of these ascetics thus know their coming, their going, their passing away, and their rebirth as it truly is, should I then blame all asceticism, or should I unequivocally revile and denounce every ascetic living a harsh life? 384. There are, Kassapa, some recluses and brahmins, wise, skilled, having refuted others' doctrines, like hair-splitters. They, I think, go about shattering views with their wisdom. With them, in some points, I agree; in some points, I do not agree. What they say in some cases is 'good', that, in some cases, we also say is 'good'. What they say in some cases is 'not good', that, in some cases, we also say is 'not good'. What they say in some cases is 'good', that, in some cases, we say is 'not good'. What they say in some cases is 'not good', that, in some cases, we say is 'good'. What we say in some cases is 'good', others also say in some cases is 'good'. What we say in some cases is 'not good', others also say in some cases is 'not good'. What we say in some cases is 'not good', others say in some cases is 'good'. What we say in some cases is 'good', others say in some cases is 'not good'. Discourse on Questioning 385. Then I approach them and say this: ‘Friends, those points on which we do not agree, let those points stand. But on those points where we do agree, let the discerning question, examine, and discuss teacher with teacher, or community with community – ‘Which of these teachings of yours are unwholesome, reckoned as unwholesome, blameworthy, reckoned as blameworthy, not to be practiced, reckoned as not to be practiced, not noble, reckoned as not noble, dark, reckoned as dark? Which who, having abandoned these things completely, lives? Is it the ascetic Gotama, or are it these other venerable teachers of groups?’ 386. “It is indeed possible, Kassapa, that discerning people, questioning, examining, and discussing, would say this: ‘These things of yours, which are unwholesome, counted as unwholesome, blameworthy, counted as blameworthy, not to be practiced, counted as not to be practiced, not noble, counted as not noble, dark, counted as dark— the ascetic Gotama, having abandoned these things completely, lives. Or are it these other venerable teachers of groups?’ Thus, Kassapa, discerning people, questioning, examining, and discussing, would mostly praise us in that regard. 387. “And further, Kassapa, discerning people, questioning, examining, and discussing us, the Teacher with the Teacher, or the Sangha with the Sangha, would say: ‘These things of yours, which are wholesome, counted as wholesome, blameless, counted as blameless, to be practiced, counted as to be practiced, noble, counted as noble, bright, counted as bright— who, having undertaken these things completely, lives? Is it the ascetic Gotama, or are it these other venerable teachers of groups?’ 388. “It is indeed possible, Kassapa, that discerning people, questioning, examining, and discussing, would say this: ‘These things of yours, which are wholesome, counted as wholesome, blameless, counted as blameless, to be practiced, counted as to be practiced, noble, counted as noble, bright, counted as bright— the ascetic Gotama, having undertaken these things completely, lives. Or are it these other venerable teachers of groups?’ Thus, Kassapa, discerning people, questioning, examining, and discussing, would mostly praise us in that regard. 389. “And further, Kassapa, discerning people, questioning, examining, and discussing us, the Teacher with the Teacher, or the Sangha with the Sangha, would say: ‘These things of yours, which are unwholesome, counted as unwholesome, blameworthy, counted as blameworthy, blameworthy, reckoned as blameworthy, not to be cultivated, reckoned as not to be cultivated, not noble, reckoned as not noble, dark, reckoned as dark. Who completely abandons these things and lives? Is it the assembly of Gotama's disciples, or are it the venerable assemblies of other teachers' disciples? 390. "Indeed, Kassapa, it is possible, that discerning persons, questioning, examining, and discussing, would say this: 'These things of yours are unwholesome, reckoned as unwholesome, blameworthy, reckoned as blameworthy, not to be cultivated, reckoned as not to be cultivated, not noble, reckoned as not noble, dark, reckoned as dark. The assembly of Gotama's disciples completely abandons these things and lives, not the venerable assemblies of other teachers' disciples.' Thus, Kassapa, discerning persons, questioning, examining, and discussing, would for the most part praise us in that regard. 391. "Furthermore, Kassapa, discerning persons, questioning, examining, and discussing, would compare teacher with teacher, or assembly with assembly. 'These things of yours are wholesome, reckoned as wholesome, blameless, reckoned as blameless, to be cultivated, reckoned as to be cultivated, noble, reckoned as noble, bright, reckoned as bright. Who completely undertakes these things and lives? Is it the assembly of Gotama's disciples, or are it the venerable assemblies of other teachers' disciples?' 392. "Indeed, Kassapa, it is possible, that discerning persons, questioning, examining, and discussing, would say this: 'These things of yours are wholesome, reckoned as wholesome, blameless, reckoned as blameless, to be cultivated, reckoned as to be cultivated, noble, reckoned as noble, bright, reckoned as bright. The assembly of Gotama's disciples completely undertakes these things and lives, not the venerable assemblies of other teachers' disciples.' Thus, Kassapa, discerning persons, questioning, examining, and discussing, would for the most part praise us in that regard. Noble The Eightfold Path 393. “There is, Kassapa, a path, there is a practice, by practicing which one will know for oneself, one will see for oneself: ‘Gotama the recluse is one who speaks in due season, who speaks of reality, who speaks of benefit, who speaks of Dhamma, who speaks of Vinaya.’ And what, Kassapa, is that path, what is that practice, by practicing which one will know for oneself, one will see for oneself: ‘Gotama the recluse is one who speaks in due season, who speaks of reality, who speaks of benefit, who speaks of Dhamma, who speaks of Vinaya’? It is this Noble Eightfold Path. That is to say: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration. This, Kassapa, is the path, this is the practice, by practicing which one will know for oneself, one will see for oneself: ‘Gotama the recluse is one who speaks in due season, who speaks of reality, who speaks of benefit, who speaks of Dhamma, who speaks of Vinaya.’” Discourse on Ascetic Practices 394. When this was said, the naked ascetic Kassapa said to the Blessed One: “These, friend Gotama, are the ascetic practices of these recluses and brahmins, which are considered to be recluseship and brahminhood. He is naked, of loose conduct, licking his hands, not coming when asked, not stopping when asked, not accepting food brought to him, not food prepared specifically for him, not an invitation. He does not accept from the mouth of a pot, nor from the mouth of a bowl, nor across a threshold, nor across a stick, nor across a mortar, nor from two people eating, nor from a pregnant woman, nor from a nursing woman, nor from a woman with a man between them, nor from a collection of food, nor from where a dog is standing, nor from where flies are swarming, he eats no fish, no meat, drinks no liquor, no strong drink, no rice-gruel.